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Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

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    Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

    Surprised France agreed to this. If they make the final they will be playing Sun-Thurs-Sun. Perhaps favours Belgium et al in the other half?

    #2
    Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

    I'm still surprised this has not been brought up.

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      #3
      Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

      Maybe they should have played both of the last two quarter-finals today, then played the semi-finals Tuesday and Wednesday.

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        #4
        Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

        Hmm. Extend that run of tiring matches back to the last group game and it goes Sunday - Sunday - Sunday - Thursday - Sunday.

        So next week will the first, potentially, that France have had anything to do mid-week in three weeks. I don't think fatigue should be their go-to excuse.

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          #5
          Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

          imp wrote: Maybe they should have played both of the last two quarter-finals today, then played the semi-finals Tuesday and Wednesday
          TV demands that games at the SF stage are a) on different days and b) at peak viewing (ie 2100 rather than 1800).

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            #6
            Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

            Were the QFs in previous World/Euros spread out over 4 consecutive days? I thought they were usually played 2 x 2.

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              #7
              Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

              Yeah, there was no point in not playing both games today. If France wins relatively easily it won't matter all that much given Germany had to play 120min. But you can imagine a scenario where Iceland pulls off the monumental upset on penalties and goes into the semi with only 3 days rest.

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                #8
                Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                tee rex wrote: Were the QFs in previous World/Euros spread out over 4 consecutive days? I thought they were usually played 2 x 2.
                World Cup q/fs have, since the tournament reverted to knockouts in 1986, traditionally been played out over two days, which makes sense for the reasons others have stated. (Between 1958 and 1970, the last eight all played simultaneously; 1954 saw the four games played over two days, with provisions for replays; 1938, ditto, but over one day; the remaining tournaments had no q/fs.)

                The last Euros to follow the recent two-day pattern was 2000, UEFA obviously seeing 'return' in four consecutive peak-time kick-offs.

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                  #9
                  Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                  linus wrote: Yeah, there was no point in not playing both games today. If France wins relatively easily it won't matter all that much given Germany had to play 120min. But you can imagine a scenario where Iceland pulls off the monumental upset on penalties and goes into the semi with only 3 days rest
                  Indeed. Repeating/ laboring my point from the other parallel thread, in a 16 team tournament the schedule would enable

                  a) four days (or precisely/ pedantically at least 93 hours) between games for everyone, except

                  b) winners of the first and third quarter finals, who'd get six days. (This to avoid teams meeting at group stage and then again before the final). And

                  c) the winner of the second semi, only three days- although even that could be avoided by extending the tournament to a Monday night final, or starting it on a Thursday.

                  Has anybody else bar Martin O'Neill gurned about any unfairness yet?

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                    #10
                    Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                    In Euro 96, the two semi finals were on the same day. Czech Rep and Germany played Sun-Wed-Sun. I don't know if that contributed to the sterility of the games.

                    The switch to semis on different nights took place in 2000 and might have been because there were co-hosts, so Belgium and Netherlands would both have wanted a peak-time audience.

                    The first World Cup in my lifetime to have SF on different days was Italia 90.

                    In 1982, insanely, the 3rd place play-off between France and Poland in Alicante was only 48 hours after France had played 120 minutes + pens in the heat of Seville.

                    Another slightly odd thing: the 1988 Euro final was a Saturday afternoon.

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                      #11
                      Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                      I remember that, as I missed the 1st half moving from Birmingham to Newcastle in a van, even though we set off at the crack.

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                        #12
                        Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                        Satchmo Distel wrote: In Euro 96, the two semi finals were on the same day. Czech Rep and Germany played Sun-Wed-Sun. I don't know if that contributed to the sterility of the games.

                        The switch to semis on different nights took place in 2000 and might have been because there were co-hosts, so Belgium and Netherlands would both have wanted a peak-time audience.
                        This was a reversion rather than a switch: the Euro semis in 1984, 1988 and 1992 had all been played on consecutive nights.

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                          #13
                          Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                          So maybe the Euro 96 switch was to enable England to play their QF v Spain on Saturday afternoon, then the SF Weds night, with an extra 24 hours rest over the opponent? Some England favouritism that went unnoticed.

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                            #14
                            Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                            For the life of me, other than tv viewing, can I figure out why they did the QFs on 4 consecutive days instead of the - uhhhh - 12pm - 3pm in the USA, which I figure is 6pm-9pm on that GMT.

                            Then do a 6-9 pm semi. But yes, a Thursday night to Sunday is dumb.

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                              #15
                              Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                              France may have lost anyway regardless of schedule but it did seem that 3 days was insufficient recovery for them. I think their officials fucked up by not insisting that Group A winners got a better semi time slot

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                                #16
                                Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                It definitely did play a role in the later stages of the game and in extra time. 72 vs 96 hours of recovery time really kicks in when you're getting to the bottom of the stamina barrell.

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                                  #17
                                  Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                  Satchmo Distel wrote: France may have lost anyway regardless of schedule but it did seem that 3 days was insufficient recovery for them. I think their officials fucked up by not insisting that Group A winners got a better semi time slot
                                  I guess you can only rig the draw so much, I mean they already had the easiest route to the semi-final on that side of the draw and they'd had a whole week between matches until the semi.

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                                    #18
                                    Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                    It doesn't matter, the schedule should not be set up to give one finalist a definite edge over the other, regardless of who those teams are.

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                                      #19
                                      Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                      For the life of me, other than tv viewing, can I figure out why they did the QFs on 4 consecutive days instead of the - uhhhh - 12pm - 3pm in the USA, which I figure is 6pm-9pm on that GMT.
                                      I have a feeling that the Tour de France (which is a very major presence on public television in France) had a good deal to do with this.

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                                        #20
                                        Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                        linus wrote: It doesn't matter, the schedule should not be set up to give one finalist a definite edge over the other, regardless of who those teams are
                                        So the semi-finals have to be simultaneous then?

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                                          #21
                                          Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                          Same day would do, obviously. Playing a few hours apart on the same day would not constitute a definite advantage, let's not be overly pedantic here.

                                          And if you really have to stagger the games, then play the semis on Tuesday and Wednesday instead, and start the competition one day earlier or narrow the gap somewhere else if possible with a minimum of 4 days between any game/stage.

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                                            #22
                                            Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                            linus wrote: It definitely did play a role in the later stages of the game and in extra time. 72 vs 96 hours of recovery time really kicks in when you're getting to the bottom of the stamina barrell.
                                            Last night France were up against a team who were playing their third extra-time game in two weeks.

                                            The main reasons why they lost the final were because Griezmann missed a complete sitter midway through the second half, because they completely ran out of ideas in extra-time, and because ultimately they're not particularly good.

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                                              #23
                                              Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                              A few things that struck me from the stands. France were working very hard with a high press at the start on a noticeably warm and humid night. They were never going to maintain this for 90 minutes, let alone 120 even if they had had a week to prepare. Maybe the three days is why this stopped happening after ~25 minutes, and slightly fresher they could have made it to the 35 minute mark.

                                              Portugal were hamstrung by putting Quaresma on for Ronaldo, as Nani was utterly lost as the centre-forward. They improved immediately once Eder replaced Renato Sanchez, which allowed Nani to shift back to the wing. It left players in their correct positions, and the entire team shifted up with it as players were now making runs for each other. Would this also have happened if Eder had come on in the first half? Speculative, but I think probably yes.

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                                                #24
                                                Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                                They improved immediately once Eder replaced Renato Sanchez, which allowed Nani to shift back to the wing.
                                                Nani's been a support striker all through this tournament, playing off Ronaldo. Portugal are famously wingerless for the first time in decades.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Scheduling disadvantage: 2nd SF on a Thursday

                                                  They're always going to be on at different times and probably days, for TV coverage, sponsors and all the usual tournament associated bollocks.

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