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    #51
    So, so far then, then

    Yeah, Germany v Poland is the only one that's properly bored the arse off me, though Italy v Sweden had its moments of high tedium. Of course, all four of those are countries that habitually made it through to the finals in the days of 16 teams. None of the newbies have disgraced themselves - really enjoyed watching Albania battling against France; Northern Ireland were really excellent against Ukraine, Iceland and Wales have brought some great moments.

    Although I opposed expansion, the real problem is less the number of teams, more the format that makes it so easy to get through

    Comment


      #52
      So, so far then, then

      What does the panel think of a future tweak, keeping 24 finalists but scrapping the round of 16? Only group winners plus two best others to the QF.

      Comment


        #53
        So, so far then, then

        They have to go back to 16. It's mostly the extra 8 teams that are dragging this down (not NI, Wales and Iceland but Turkey, Sweden, Ukraine, etc).

        It's not true that Sweden would be regulars in a 16 team format; they've been poor for a while.

        The only team that finished 3rd in the qualifying groups that would be really missed would be Hungary IMHO, but if they're good enough they'll rise again.

        EDIT: I accept the points made on other threads that this is the armchair viewers' whine and I shouldn't begrudge the Albanian and ROI fans their weeks of tournament footie, which I'm under no obligation to watch. I have the option of tuning out until the Round of 16.

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          #54
          So, so far then, then

          Keep 24 teams, have eight groups of three, winners through to QF.

          Comment


            #55
            So, so far then, then

            Borracho wrote:
            I'm not sure the seven-eight goal drubbings in the Copa America (there have been a few, no? I've barely been able to keep up with it) are really preferable to some of the tight 1-1 matches we've had in the Euros.
            I've just seen the Mexico result from last night. Jesus christ.
            SBS have been showing live the 4 Copa America quarter-finals. It's unfair to compare knockout games to 1st & 2nd round group-stage games, but it was a breath of fresh air seeing the net bulge on many an occasion. Watching Mexico getting humped was hilarious.

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              #56
              So, so far then, then

              Worst game I've ever watched on TV was in a group of 3 (Poland v USSR 1982) but so was the best (Italy v Brazil 1982).

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                #57
                So, so far then, then

                CY_Boaby wrote:

                SBS have been showing live the 4 Copa America quarter-finals. It's unfair to compare knockout games to 1st & 2nd round group-stage games, but it was a breath of fresh air seeing the net bulge on many an occasion. Watching Mexico getting humped was hilarious.
                I honestly don't think there was a stinker in the Copa group games. Maybe Brazil v Ecuador, and that had some infamy value because of the ref chopping off a clear Ecuador goal.

                Comment


                  #58
                  So, so far then, then

                  *****
                  Spain

                  ****
                  France / Croatia / Italy / Germany

                  ***
                  Switzerland / England / Poland / Hungary / Belgium

                  **
                  Romania / Slovakia / Turkey / Czech Republic / Republic of Ireland / Austria / Wales / Northern Ireland / Sweden / Iceland / Portugal

                  *
                  Albania / Russia / Ukraine

                  Comment


                    #59
                    So, so far then, then

                    gérontophile wrote:
                    Originally posted by CY_Boaby

                    SBS have been showing live the 4 Copa America quarter-finals. It's unfair to compare knockout games to 1st & 2nd round group-stage games, but it was a breath of fresh air seeing the net bulge on many an occasion. Watching Mexico getting humped was hilarious.
                    I honestly don't think there was a stinker in the Copa group games. Maybe Brazil v Ecuador, and that had some infamy value because of the ref chopping off a clear Ecuador goal.
                    I was thinking that as well.

                    Often, 'turning over' to watch the Copa games after the Euros was like watching a different and refreshing level of football - it seemed all so fast and intense, with players really going for it, whereas some of the Euros play seemed more cagey and pragmatic.

                    Comment


                      #60
                      So, so far then, then

                      Dunkerque- Gare de Nord wrote: What does the panel think of a future tweak, keeping 24 finalists but scrapping the round of 16? Only group winners plus two best others to the QF.
                      Personally, I'd like that.

                      But, then, I'd like the whole Euros to be a straight home-and-away knockout thing from the start, with (remaining) highest-ranked playing (remaining) lowest-ranked in each round. It'll never happen, of course - there's too much invested - figuratively and literally - in having a qualifiers system followed by a big tournament based in one country.

                      Comment


                        #61
                        So, so far then, then

                        Lodzubelieveit wrote: *****
                        Spain

                        ****
                        France / Croatia / Italy / Germany

                        ***
                        Switzerland / England / Poland / Hungary / Belgium

                        **
                        Romania / Slovakia / Turkey / Czech Republic / Republic of Ireland / Austria / Wales / Northern Ireland / Sweden / Iceland / Portugal

                        *
                        Albania / Russia / Ukraine
                        Spain

                        ****
                        France / Croatia / Italy / Germany

                        ***
                        Switzerland / England / Poland / Hungary / Belgium

                        **.5
                        Romania /Wales / Northern Ireland / Iceland /

                        **
                        Slovakia /Czech Republic / Republic of Ireland / Austria / Portugal

                        *
                        Albania / Russia / Ukraine/Sweden/Turkey

                        Comment


                          #62
                          So, so far then, then

                          The bottom line is that the desires of the purist who wants consistent quality are incompatible with the financial demands of TV and UEFA and, more positively, the desires of traveling fans to see their team play in a major finals even if the team is always going to be somewhere around 15th-25th in the European pecking order (typically: Ireland, Scotland, Turkey, Sweden, Austria, etc).

                          I think the Euros is eventually headed for a 32 team format where the purist essentially has to opt out of watching most of the games on TV until the last 16 starts. This already happens for many of us with the Champions League.

                          Comment


                            #63
                            So, so far then, then

                            imp wrote: Keep 24 teams, have eight groups of three, winners through to QF.
                            The imp is joking. Has to be.

                            No odd numbers in groups. No, no, thrice no. See 1982, and see Rugby for more evidence.

                            Comment


                              #64
                              So, so far then, then

                              Satchmo Distel wrote:
                              I think the Euros is eventually headed for a 32 team format where the purist essentially has to opt out of watching most of the games on TV until the last 16 starts. This already happens for many of us with the Champions League.
                              Agree, but it'll probably be another couple of decades before we get that far. The big practical problem there will be finding suitable hosts - even co-hosting will be beyond many medium sized nations. I imagine we'd end up with the majority of tournaments being played in multiple venues across the continent.

                              Comment


                                #65
                                So, so far then, then

                                Is that not the plan for future Euros anyway? Or did that idea get shelved?

                                Comment


                                  #66
                                  So, so far then, then

                                  The 2020 finals will be held in 13 different countries:

                                  Final and semi-finals: London (England)

                                  Quarter-finals and group stage: Munich (Germany), Baku (Azerbaijan), Saint Petersburg (Russia), Rome (Italy)

                                  Round of 16 and group stage: Copenhagen (Denmark), Bucharest (Romania), Amsterdam (Netherlands), Dublin (Republic of Ireland), Bilbao (Spain), Budapest (Hungary), Brussels (Belgium), Glasgow (Scotland)

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    So, so far then, then

                                    The qualification process and numbers for Euro 2020 and onwards will be affected by the forthcoming Nations League.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      So, so far then, then

                                      tee rex wrote:
                                      Originally posted by imp
                                      Keep 24 teams, have eight groups of three, winners through to QF.
                                      The imp is joking. Has to be.

                                      No odd numbers in groups. No, no, thrice no. See 1982, and see Rugby for more evidence.
                                      I don't generally look to rugby for evidence in anything except for man's ability to consistently drag his knuckles. A three-team group may not be ideal, but it's better than the head-numbing despondence we're being put through with the current format. I am actually not bothering to watch games, and that is utterly unprecedented in half a century of football addiction. But please remind me again why the 82 World Cup is a bad precedent for groups of 3.

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        So, so far then, then

                                        We're at 51 goals in 28 games now. As a not entirely direct comparison, the 51st goal in the last World Cup came midway through the 18th game (Croatia's 2nd v Cameroon).

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          So, so far then, then

                                          1982 2nd phase: Poland v USSR was a very poor game in that tournament, and the Eng-Ger-Spain group a bit dull, but Brazil's group was a cracker and both France and Poland had one pulsating game.

                                          I suppose one negative argument is that the team that loses its first game is out of the tournament before they have properly got going.

                                          Comment


                                            #71
                                            So, so far then, then

                                            Eng-Ger-Spain was awful and more importantly, England got knocked out, ergo bad (or so it seemed at the time).

                                            But in all seriousness, a group of 3 is a non-starter in modern football politics. Rows about the draw would go nuclear. The advantage of playing first and third (both the rest period and the advantage of knowing exactly what you need) would be reserved for the privileged nations, or so everyone else would soon believe. It'll never happen.

                                            In rugby there are groups of five, which isn't as bad, but still, the "minnows" are predictably - and shamefully - disadvantaged.

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              So, so far then, then

                                              longeared wrote: We're at 51 goals in 28 games now. As a not entirely direct comparison, the 51st goal in the last World Cup came midway through the 18th game (Croatia's 2nd v Cameroon).
                                              I think the most disheartening aspect of it is that, in this tournament, that's never really looked like changing at any time.

                                              And I can only imagine that the knockouts will be cagier still.

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                So, so far then, then

                                                There have been poor Euros before (1980) but they were short. This is a prolonged month of Hell unless it dramatically improves.

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                                                  #74
                                                  So, so far then, then

                                                  Oh no!

                                                  Two more weeks of live knock-out tournament football coming up.

                                                  Fuck this

                                                  I wish the Rugby World Cup, or Commonwealth Games was on.
                                                  What's the matter with youze?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    So, so far then, then

                                                    Oh, I'm still with it (and shall remain so), but goals and exciting play are what we hope to see in football. When there isn't a great deal of it in a tournament, well, it can become a little frustrating to watch.

                                                    For me, the 16-team Euros worked ideally - tighter, that much more focused than the World Cup and quick to reach the business end. With third-placed teams now able to qualify, it stands to reason that many will play unadventurously.

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