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[Guy Profumo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36032842

Explain to this bear of little brain, please, by what authority can the parish council levy charges on what is the local (unitary) authority's resource/property?

Anyway. A simple solution. This time next year, a local referendum - "Do you agree Stoke Gifford Parish Council should be abolished and all of its roles and responsibilities returned to South Gloucestershire".

Job done!

[Bored Of Education]

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It's here for some unknown reason.

Almost 85 years ago, the British Workers' Sports Federation staged a mass trespass of Kinder Scout in order to gain public rights of way and became the Ramblers' Association. Perhaps, the Stokes Gifford parkrunners will need to do the same. If you are unsure what you think about this issue, bear in mind that Giles Coren is against parkruns.

[Guy Profumo]

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And the 24th April falls on a Sunday this year...

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

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I think 'World' is the right place, I don't think any of us contributing to it would claim what we are doing is to any meaningful degree 'Sport'.

Parkrun seems to be in danger of being a victim of its own success, and something like this was going to happen eventually (and might well have already for all I know, I've not been paying attention long). I'll defend the concept all day, I think it's a great thing, but so do a lot of other people and there will be tensions like this as it continues to grow.

My local one is on a public park, which is the grounds of a community centre. There is a café in the centre, which does a good trade in post-run coffees, bacon rolls etc. There have been grumblings from the centre over a few things - including the state that the toilets can get into after a run, the number of people using the car park, and the fact that people bring cakes/traybakes in to share (to celebrate say their 50th/100th run) which they see as hurting their takings. This week I noticed for the first time a box on the counter with a notice to 'politely request that parkrun participants make donations towards the facilities they use'.

As I say I'm a recent convert, so this is only a guess - in the early days when 60 or so were turning up, they might have been more relaxed, but now that well over 200 are doing it weekly, the scales have tipped.

[San Bernardhinault]

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This has been brewing for a while. Back when I lived in Wandsworth, people were looking at ways to charge personal trainers who were doing outdoor training on the common. I think on some kind of specious premise that if they were making a profit then they should pay, the way that a cafe would. In fact it was a result of complaints from grumpy old people who didn't like that things didn't look exactly like they did 50 years ago, and annoyed that these people were using empty space, making noise.

It still shocks me that councils and authorities would do anything at all that would discourage people from exercising.

[Janik]

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It is hardly a new concept that councils charge people for exercising when their method of doing so requires maintenance costs to keep the facilities up to scratch.

Parkrun's supporters are being rather cheeky in complaining that this is against the ethos of their organisation. If those operating a particular park think hundreds of people running over the same course is going to cause wear and tear that will need rectifying, then either find a sponsor to pay for that cost or find an alternative venue. Like a piece of common land. A common might be muddier and rather more overgrown than a park, so less pleasant, but parks only look like they do because they are maintained. They are not natural environments.

[MsD]

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San Bernardhinault wrote: This has been brewing for a while. Back when I lived in Wandsworth, people were looking at ways to charge personal trainers who were doing outdoor training on the common. I think on some kind of specious premise that if they were making a profit then they should pay, the way that a cafe would. In fact it was a result of complaints from grumpy old people who didn't like that things didn't look exactly like they did 50 years ago, and annoyed that these people were using empty space, making noise.

It still shocks me that councils and authorities would do anything at all that would discourage people from exercising.

On the other side of it, a friend of mine, a usually ungrumpy 50 year old, gets woken up early several times a week by a group doing boxercise and other things in the park. They are shouty exhibitionists. I exercise in my garden in nice weather, have never felt the need to keep shouting "HEEEEEEEY!!" while I'm doing it. Requests to move the fuck away from residential property have been ignored, they seem to like an audience.

[Guy Profumo]

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I think this just about sums up my attitude to this in almost its entirety

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36039580

Jim Michael, 26, is a keen amateur runner who lives in Bristol, but participates in another Parkrun near to the one which faces the levy. He believes the parish council's argument - that the 300 regular parkrunners in Little Stoke Park should pay for maintenance of the path - is a false one.

"What is council tax for?" he asks. "Exactly that." He jokes: "What about if I don't have kids - do I get a rebate on my council tax that goes towards schools?"

[treibeis]

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Walt Flanagans Dog wrote: There have been grumblings from the centre over a few things - including the state that the toilets can get into after a run

This is a subject close to my heart. Anybody who doesn't buy stuff from the café owner should pay to use the toilet. It really is that simple.

I often get runners asking (or, more often than not, demanding) to use my toilet, often before I've even opened for business.

When I tell them it costs money, they're aghast (and they never have any money on them anyway).

I let them use it anyway and tell them to bring the money "next time". They never do.

So I'm going to stop letting them use it. I could bore them about the cost of rent, water, soap, paper, cleaning and repairs (as well as the fact that the toilets get on my tits big-time), but I'm not going to. I'm just going to say "No, you can't", possibly suffixed with "Now, fuck off."

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

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Which is all fair enough, but (and I can't attempt to prove this), I'd guess that most of the people using the toilet are using the café as well. Though granted that doesn't give them the right to piss all over the floor.

[treibeis]

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If people are buying stuff at the café, they should be allowed to use the toilet, of course.

The main problem isn't that people piss all over the floor. It's the fact that one (or, in my case, two) toilets used by dozens and dozens of people in quick succession look fucking awful fucking quickly.

I had to explain this to a busload of OAPs a week or two ago. The toilets were used by about fifty people (all of whom paid). By the time numbers 40+ had used them, they were complaining about having to pay to use a lavatory in which the paper bins were overflowing, there was water all over the floor and the seats were dirty.

I asked how often their toilets at home are used 20 times within 20 minutes and to imagine what they'd look like if that really did happen. Then I pointed out that, contrary to popular belief, our main business isn't, never has been and never will be, providing lavatory facilities for the general public.

At which point, my business partner butted in and told them that, next time, she'll take great pleasure in watching them shit themselves in front of her while I hold the key up in the air at arm's length and invite/taunt them to come and get it.

These lavatories are going to be the death of either me or somebody else, I'm sure they are.

[Bored Of Education]

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The thing about personal trainers is that they are taking money for what they are doing in the park, parkrun isn't. I say this as someone who has a friend who is a personal trainer who uses the local park. I am happy for her not to have to but, were she to be charged, I could see the point in them doing it.

[caja-dglh]

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treibeis - you should offer a runners club. 10 EUR a month for access to treibeis' throne and one currywurst a month.

[Janik]

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Bored, there are two potential reasons for charging an organisation. One, someone is using it for commerical purposes. Fair enough, as you say. Two, someone is using it in a way that imposes extra costs on maintaining the place. That, for me, is equally fair enough.

Guy Profumo wrote: I think this just about sums up my attitude to this in almost its entirety

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36039580

Jim Michael, 26, is a keen amateur runner who lives in Bristol, but participates in another Parkrun near to the one which faces the levy. He believes the parish council's argument - that the 300 regular parkrunners in Little Stoke Park should pay for maintenance of the path - is a false one.

"What is council tax for?" he asks. "Exactly that." He jokes: "What about if I don't have kids - do I get a rebate on my council tax that goes towards schools?"

He's quite wrong, or course. His council tax is to provide a facility for general use, not for specific mass organised activities. Those sort of things can ask to use the facilities of course, and if its a community event can expect to be invited to do so at cost, but should expect to cover what it takes to put the place back to rights after they have had their fun.

If the numbers have grown above a handful and are a burden on their park, than winging it for free is no longer viable. The major problem with a parkrun is that everyone goes along the same route at the same time, basically that it is an organised event. The sense of community is part of the joy of it, I suppose, but it makes it an issue. Once a parkrun rises above a few people that really is something that ought to be taken over by the local running club, who would be well used to dealing with such obvious problems.

I repeat the parkrunners are being exceedingly cheeky in thinking they have been wronged here. No-one else doing organised rather than casual sports events expects the council to provide them with a lovely venue for free.

[treibeis]

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caja-dglh wrote: treibeis - you should offer a runners club. 10 EUR a month for access to treibeis' throne and one currywurst a month.

Yes, but it would have to be non-transferable.

Otherwise I'll get people coming by and saying, "You know Gundula, the tall woman with the ponytail and the HSV hoodie? She's got your Bog & Sausage deal.

I'm her sister, Dagmar. Gundi says she only uses your khazi twice a week, which is eight times a month, which is four euros. Which means she's got six euros going spare. So I demand to use your toilet on Gundi's tab."

And we don't do currywurst. Steamed wieners only, I'm afraid.