Hot Ice: NHL Thread

[ursus arctos]

But people need to be able to get to the rink

[Hot Pepsi]

It’s all such an insane business, this professional sports thing, isn’t it?

[ursus arctos]

Yes, in large part because of the degree to which it has become subsidised and otherwise supported by local governments.

If owners actually had to purchase the land for and fund the facilities in which their teams played, the whole ecosystem would be less complicated.

[BallochSonsFan]

The Barclays Centre move was a weird one. The Islanders were complaining from pretty much the outset of the move and the arena aren't too happy either.

Could the Islanders ultimately leave NY? The XL Centre wouldn't be big enough for a return of the Whalers. The Videotron in Quebec holds just under 19k. Maybe its time for a return of the Nordique?

[ursus arctos]

The thing about Barclays is that it was originally designed for both basketball and hockey, but then Ratner decided to save money by killing the hockey configuration in favour of something more concert friendly. Many of the seats are fine, but some are just a joke.

The knock on Québéc has always been that the business community isn’t large or flush enough to produce the kind of luxury box revenue the NHL now expects, but that was also the knock on Winnipeg.

[Hot Pepsi]

The thing about Barclays is that it was originally designed for both basketball and hockey, but then Ratner decided to save money by killing the hockey configuration in favour of something more concert friendly. Many of the seats are fine, but some are just a joke.

The knock on Québéc has always been that the business community isn’t large or flush enough to produce the kind of luxury box revenue the NHL now expects, but that was also the knock on Winnipeg.

I don't know much about Quebec, but some people said that about Minnesota before the Wild were born. Minnesota - home of more Fortune 500 companies than Massachusetts - so I'm always a bit suspicious of those arguments.

I suspect the big crowds and decent TV ratings would make up for that deficiency, if indeed it really is one. It would be helpful for them to have a decent media presence in both languages, I suppose, so they could attract fans in eastern Canada. Or are all of those fans already spoken-for?

Most of the US teams that do especially well in local ratings are smaller-market teams in the north. Quebec could probably be like that and do just fine, but I don't know how to compare value of doing really well in smaller city (Pittsburgh) vs to the value of a small audience in a much bigger city (Phoenix). Or how Quebec would compare to Houston. I also don't really know how hockey TV in Canada works - I couldn't find local TV ratings for the Canadian teams - Rogers owns all the rights now, right?

Hockey would be a lot better if the NHL would stop trying to be the NFL or even the NBA. Maybe the players will only be mere millionaires. There are worse fates.

[Gerontophile]

(Are we keeping this the thread for the new season?)

Vegas open up their season with a 5-2 shellacking by the Flyers.

Let's see if they still get full houses after losing 6 in a row. Also, the absolute shitbags have been rescinding season tickets, and reselling them to other people (and one would assume for a higher price).

[Ray de Galles]

Belfast Giants player tries to score goal with his pants.

[Muukalainen]

Also, the absolute shitbags have been rescinding season tickets, and reselling them to other people (and one would assume for a higher price).

I'm struggling to understand you here, Gero. Do you mean they're reselling vacant seats on a game by game basis (I'm not sure how that could even work in practice, but still) or something else even worse?

[ursus arctos]

It is a crackdown on people who resell their seats, Muuk

The Vegas Golden Knights “have canceled several hundred (season ticket) accounts and counting and will continue to do so” since spring after season ticket holders were “upset that there are too many tickets for resell or too many visiting team fans in the building,” according to an email from a VGK ticket rep to a fan who had his season ticket deal nixed by the team last week.

Which is “interesting”, as I recall the club explicitly targeting Canadians who were frequent visitors to Vegas with the implicit understanding that they could resell tickets they couldn’t use.

That said, I wouldn’t expect that the people on the waiting list who are being offered the cancelled tickets are paying more than the original holders, unless they locked in some kind of special multi-year deal (uncommon in North America, but not unheard of for new clubs).

[Hot Pepsi]

That seems like a needless PR mistake for VGK.

[ursus arctos]

I could see how targeting a few egregious profiteers from out of town could be popular, but this seems rather indiscriminate. Having lots of fans of the visiting team is also a fact of life for Sunbelt clubs, especially in their early years. Third party resales have little to do with thatm

[Muukalainen]

Thanks ursus. While I've no sympathy with those that buy season tickets for the purpose of re-selling the seats, it seems that what's happening in practice is depriving the genuine fan too.

[Gerontophile]

Yeah, that's not it: they took away season tickets from multiple year holders, to sell to people for one year, at a higher rate than last year's prices.

The particular story I read was of a season ticket holder who shared with multiple other people, and the Knights ownership didn't like that.

*But yes, they have also revoked tickets from people who sell them on. (Although again, in some cases, it was at face value, on a game per game basis.)

Not selling. The first comment below the article is revealing.

[ursus arctos]

The first comment refers to exactly the situation that Yankees season ticket holders got into with the club’s jihad against StubHub.

Call me heartless, but I think that one should understand the terms of a contract one enters into for a five year term at USD 10K plus per year.

[Hot Pepsi]

The first comment refers to exactly the situation that Yankees season ticket holders got into with the club’s jihad against StubHub.

Call me heartless, but I think that one should understand the terms of a contract one enters into for a five year term at USD 10K plus per year.

Yeah, you'd think...

[Wouter D]

Call me heartless, but I think that one should understand the terms of a contract one enters into for a five year term at USD 10K plus per year.

I have a fair bit of sympathy for the underlying principle of that statement, but I do think that this expects too much of the general population. It's like a piece of software's Terms and Conditions document. We are collectively bamboozling ourselves if we think that people actually read that stuff.

[ursus arctos]

It’s more than USD 50K and five years. Even Microsoft doesn’t shrink wrap that stuff. The reason they are going to the press is because they know they would be DOA in court.

[Hot Pepsi]

What is their threshold for selling “too many” tickets? Or is their main gripe that they’re selling them through “unauthorized” third-party sellers?

Are there really that many people with $50k+ who have time to go to 30, 40, 50+ games a year?

I’ve never met such a person. I’m a single guy with a fairly undemanding job and even I can’t make all 20 PSU hockey games. Anyone I know with season tickets to pro baseball, hockey, or basketball share them with at least three or four other people. Or their firm owns them and spreads them around to clients/customers and/or employees. The people who have the money don’t have the time and vice-versa.

[ursus arctos]

If other cases are any guide, it is that they are selling them through unauthorized outlets.

As to the other question, there are a significant number of retired, self-employed and people with very flexible schedules who could do that. I’m not sure that very many of them do, however. That said, if I was living in Chicago, I would try to get season tickets for the Cubs and probably go to 70 regular season games and give the rest away.

The aggravating factor in the VGK case seems to be the owner’s frustration that there are lots of people in the rink supporting the opposition. As I said originally, I think that is screaming at the tide given Vegas’ context. Pissing off season ticket holders and generating bad press won’t help that problem at all.

[Hot Pepsi]

Wow. 70 games! That’s a lot. I suppose it would be a grind if you had to drive in and park. But if you could walk or take the L, it would be fun. I just can’t imagine ever having that kind of disposable income.

I have thought that maybe if I live long enough, I could be a ballpark usher in my old age. The guy I see regularly at the Spikes is 85.

[ursus arctos]

You have to be nuts to drive to Wrigley.

In any event, to me, “living in Chicago” means living within walking distance of the El.

[Hot Pepsi]

You could probably make that happen, if you want.


I suspect hardly anyone drives to Wrigley, but a lot of people probably drive from far away and take Metra.

[ursus arctos]

My family isn’t interested, though I still might do it for a month or two at some point.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Back to hockey for a moment. We all agree that Elias Pettersson is already consensus rookie of the year right? Four goals/seven points in four games, why wait let's give him the Calder Trophy right now.

But seriously, Bure aside, he's as good any Nux newbie I've seen in forty years. I really,really,really,really,really,really,really,r eally,really,really, hope he makes it through the season intact.