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    My former MP when I lived in London, Labour are better off without her.

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      Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
      Yes I think there is clearly an unpleasant anti semitic current that exists within certain elements of the left. If that alone was highlighted and condemned we'd be in a much better place. But this search for anti semitism in the word s of everyone you don't agree with is really going to cause huge problems down the line. It's got to the point now where for some people, more or less every person and every utterance is anti semitic (which devalues the term completely and renders it meaningless, and eventually renders anti semitism as an entirely mainstream and humdrum act)

      Hence people like David Quantick repeatedly throwing that allegation at SR is not just ridiculous but ultimately dangerous

      also creates a climate in which anti Semitism is a thing which is happening which normalises it thus making it more prevalent.



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        "I didn't think you had it in your bag"

        https://twitter.com/WarmongerHodges/status/1097993065153941504

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          Wwll even thoguh Joan has resigned from the labour party she will still e able to stay chair of "labour Friends of Israel" because Mark Regev wanted it that way.

          https://twitter.com/_LFI/status/1097981212113727488

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            Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
            The Tactical Genius would like to apologise to the people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and northern Ireland for Umunna. I hope Dele Alli and Anthony Joshua somewhat balance the books.......
            I don't know what you're apologizing for. He's half posh london Irish. His Grandfather was born in Limerick, and grew up in Connemara, about eight miles from where I'm sitting right now, and was called Sir Helenus Padraig Seosaimh Milmo, which would suggest that there's a good chance that he was the only irish speaking UK High court judge. He was certainly the only Irish speaking prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials. He was also the one sent to investigate Kim Philby, and though he couldn't find any definitive proof, he did warn his superiors that Philby was almost definitely a russian spy, and had been for quite some time.

            I was going to also wonder why you were apologizing, because being a pure Gobshite isn't specific to any cultural group. And poor Chuka is basically primarily a gobshite. He seems to say whatever comes into his head on the topic of Europe while being as unaware of the cameras recording him, as luis Suarez was when biting people and making sure that the ref couldn't see him. Being gobshites seems to be the common thread uniting a lot of these lads.
            Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 20-02-2019, 01:09.

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              Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
              Wow. How will Corbyn cope?

              Ryan with the culture of pro-Likud racism.
              As long as Bobson Dugnutt stays staunch, Corbyn has nothing to fear.

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                  Soubry actually does something. Perhaps this now needs a new thread?

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                    Allen and Wollaston also defect.

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                      Yes, I reckon it does need its own thread

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                        Originally posted by ad hoc View Post

                        Your centrist mates have been on a frenzy all round since yesterday. I note that Spearmint Rhino has in the space of the last 24 hours been threatened with being beaten up, and repeatedly called anti semitic, by two separate ex music journos.
                        I couldn't find the "beating up" threats anywhere on SR's timeline, were they deleted?

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                          I havent seen them either - just SR talking about it a couple of times. I presume it was on somebody else's wall.

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                            Quantick's been an obnoxious arsehole on Facebook for a while now. Glad SR's called him out on it

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                              Blimey. I just read some of that. Horrible.

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                                Derek Hatton has been suspended already.

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                                  Some good stuff from Barry Gardiner. “Forced out” is stronger than I’d expect from a frontbencher, as was his defense of Berger in general.

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                                    Gardiner is filth, mind.

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                                      Well that was worthwhile.

                                      There's an issue here that needs to be addressed, and it is to do with what is being described as right wing labour, and what is being described as left wing labour as exemplified by the leadership as though they were on the same continuum, but the problem here is that they simply aren't. I think we can all be agreed that Blair was essentially David Cameron except the wind was blowing a different way when he was in college, with the result that New Labour were an absurdly timid tories with a smile. Now there's an awful lot to be critical of here, and the things that I had most problems with were a) their pathetic lack of interest in returning the govts share of the economy to levels that would support a decent, modern developed state, and try to undo the damages of thatcherism b) they were completely unconcerned with income inequality which grew pretty steadily throughout the New labour years and c) they utterly refused to have the state intervene in the economy in the case of clear market failures. ranging from labour conditions and wages, to a failure to build the affordable housing that would have benefited so many, while reducing the scale of the bizarre housing bubble that burst so horribly messily in 2008. (Notice how every part of this has to do with Taxation and spending, and redistribution of real money and having a northern European consensus level of public spending and investment)

                                      Taking the labour manifesto in 2017, this new radical left wing labour were a big bust on a) not really specifiying any increases in taxation other than vague handwaving at rich people paying more taxes. b) not a thing about addressing income inequality, which revolves around progressive taxation and redistribution, indeed keeping the tories savaging of the benefits system. This is the thing that I focus primarily on c) state intervention in the economy is talked about a bit, but haphazard ways in which it is outlined seems to suggest going back to the 1970's for the sake of it, rather than any coherent fucking plan about how the govt might start addressing the myriad disasters that might be useful now. and promising a bunch of things to a number of disparate constituencies with no real plan for how to pay for it Oh, and they mean to go through with Brexit, and not do anything whatsoever to try and stop it.

                                      Essentially you are talking about a group of people who seem to be pretending to offer a return to traditional labour values, by talking about random nationalizations and being old, and not being blairites. And that's the thing. British politics is all about personalities, and posturing, while next to no attention is paid to policies, and this is as true of the Labour Party as it is of the Tories. everyone occupies the same very narrow policy space in practice, while making wild promises to different groups.

                                      The Problem is that while we can generally agree that blairites are mostly principle free drone cunts, that doesn't mean that you should run out and embrace the first non-blairite you can find. The Blairites might well be a burning bag of dogshit, but corbyn and his cadre are a flaming bag of catshit. No better, and in many ways even more toxic. And that's a real problem. Instead of shameless triangulation to win seats in the south east, we've now got a labour party leadership that shamelessly triangulates to retain the votes of the Ukippers who returned to the fold because they liked Brexit labour's promises for the Post brexit future. They've just swapped which small segment of the population they aim most of their key policies at.

                                      Labour's position on Brexit should have been entirely principle driven. The primary consideration of the Labour party should be to protect the most vulnerable in society and to use the levers of state to improve their position, while trying to create the sort of economy that can support the increased levels of spending that will be required. Brexit of any sort is going to be a fucking nightmare for a population immiserated by 40 years of varying shades of Thatcherism. A reasoned and sensible and tactically astute position for the Labour party at the 2017 election would be to promise if elected to negotiate the best brexit deal possible, while warning that the referendum was won by making incompatible processes, and what comes out at the end may bear little resemblance to what people thought that they voted for. Bearing that in mind they would put the withdrawal deal, and the likely shape of a future trade deal to the people in a three way preferential referendum between a no-deal, their deal, and remaining in the EU. That covers all the bases and has the advantage of being a coherent policy based in reality, which sets people up for the idea of a second referendum so they can vote on the brexit that might exist. It's also a position that leaves you free of cake, and if you don't win the election, you are Free to use this policy to relentlessly attack the tories for mishandling brexit, and sets you up to offer your three way referendum option when May can't get her Brexit vote past the house of Commons.

                                      It has the advantage of Respecting the result of the last referendum, while laying the framework for overturning it when it turns out to be a stinking pile of shit. It has the advantage of being based on what is supposed to be core values of the labour party, and it avoids the criticism of "Re-running the referendum" by clearly being a very different referendum entirely. It would also provide some sort of cohesion which would enable the Labour party to keep its broad church together, because it's hard to disagree with that unless you're Kate Hoey and beyond redemption, and the various evolving Labour positions on Brexit have been a fucking nightmare of dishonest and delusional bullshit, disconnected from reality, and it's hard to keep people marching to that sort of drumbeat. That leaves room for the likes of the seven to split off from the party, and all the bullshit articles in all of the newspapers about the end of the big parties etc.

                                      But the problem is that Corbyn is clearly pretty happy to be heading out of the European union, and anyone who thought that Labour might eventually work up to calling for a second referendum as a way out of this nightmare of shit, is going to have deal with the terrible realization that that was never going to be on the cards and that the leadership has fucked them. I was completely agnostic to him when he took over, having spent the previous five years trying to erase the knowledge that Ed Milliband was the leader of the Labour Party as surely as I've burned all memories of Ireland at euro 2012 from my memory. I wasn't particularly interested in what various UK newspapers were saying about him, because being engulfed in a tidal wave of bullshit was going to be par for the Course. I've instead paid attention to what he has said, and done, and judged it against the things that I would consider to be important in a leader of the Labour party.

                                      The thing is now, that after four years, it's really difficult to escape the conclusion that he is a very dim bulb indeed, who is completely incapable of reacting to basic situations, let along handling complicated concepts, or dealing with changing environments. PMQ's is like watching a sheep taking on a vending machine. I've stared in horror at the mess he's made of the anti-Semitism Row, through chronic incompetence. This should have been very easy to deal with. I've watched aghast as Labour has stepped on every brexit rake as the UK slides towards No Deal with no-one shouting stop. I looked very closely at the Labour manifesto and considered it to be undeliverable populist bollocks, even without brexit (You can't substantially increase public spending to the levels required, without raising taxes and substantially expanding the UK tax base like the Labour party used to be interested in) but it was this video of him Addressing the cranks and the weirdy beardies of the Anti Lisbon treaty campaign that completely pushed me over the fucking edge........

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                                        .......This is not an intelligent man. This is not a man who understands the issues involved. This is a man whose understanding of the modern world is stuck in the period of the mid sixties when he decided he didn't need to ever learn anything again. The Lisbon treaty isn't about the creation of a European Army and he should stop banging on about Nato. Corbyn and the group of people he is talking to essentially that American Imperialism is the greatest threat to everything and we should be nicer to russia, whereas right now, America and Russia are two equally unpleasant external threats. Corbyn is not sound on Russia, and seems to be stuck in the beliefs of his youth, blissfully unaware that Russia is openly killing people in the UK in bizarrely theatrical ways. Russia is now an ultra capitalist, totalitarian Gangster oligarchy, who all want to live in london and hide their money there, while wining and dining Osborne on their Yachts, and giving him the editorship of the Evening standard, and half a million quid a year for one day a week work. Oh and they're trying to undermine the European Union by funding extreme right quasi-fascist 'populist movements.' because the European Union took their economy, folded it down to a third of its size, and wiped their arse with it in the aftermath of the Ukraine, and could basically just seize oligarch assets if they so chose. He needs to move on.

                                        Also The british left should have been backing the fuck away from venezuela at least 10 years ago, when it became very clear that it had become a super corrupt, barely democratic state that had built quite the pyramid of spending on the back of the price of oil. Even 10 years ago it was clear that there were a lot of things going on that no sane person would want to be standing over, when the shit inevitably hit the fan. But these people don't think.

                                        When it comes to the meaningful things that you should be judging a labour party leadership on, this current shower are a complete bust in basically exactly the same ways that new Labour were a disgrace, while being worse in a variety of ways. The Only thing that really differs on the important topics is bullshit, and spin, and a willingness to drive the economy off the cliff because they either don't understand, or don't care about the fucking tidal wave of misery that is going to rain down on everyone, but twice as hard on anyone who really can't afford it.

                                        Blairites are slimy cunts, and the way they gutted the party meant that when people grew sick of them, the only people to turn to were Corbyn and his cadre of dangerous and deluded cunts. I genuinely can't think of anyone who could do a good job, but at this point it seems that anyone could do a better one. Most of these MPs who have joined this new party are useless gobshites but at this point it is abundantly clear that Brexit is going to snap the Labour party like a twig when people find out how badly they were fucked by their leadership. This is a fucking disaster, a major disaster unfolding in a painfully slow and horribly predictable way.

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                                          TL;dr

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                                            Idgaf

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                                              I'd go for all lowercase, with that one. i is clearer.
                                              Last edited by DCI Harry Batt; 21-02-2019, 23:35.

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                                                I genuinely can't think of anyone who could do a good job,
                                                Probably Lammy, but the people of England aren't going to make him PM.

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                                                  https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1098608083427827720

                                                  Verhofstadt added. "Fuck me that berbaslug is a wanker"

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                                                    Could someone summarise TAB’s post in a few sentences?

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