Corb Blimey!

[Tubby Isaacs]

As a pal on another board put it, "Am I supposed to knock on doors and lie about Hard Brexit being a good policy?"

It's a shocking policy. Anybody looking to anecdote their way to supporting it is a disaster.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tbh, as a migrant, I didn't find his comments offensive at all. It was pretty clearly pointed at the Posted Workers Directive, which allows employment agencies to pay workers peanuts to do an endrun around the minimum wage. Corbyn is not a xenophobe.

He was asked about freedom of movement not the Posted Worker Directive.

[Flynnie]

He was asked about freedom of movement not the Posted Worker Directive.

""What there wouldn't be is the wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industry." "

This is the Posted Worker Directive, Tubbs.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It wasn't what he was asked about. Anybody hearing that is going to think he's talking about Freedom of Movement. That's either very clumsy or dogwhistling. More likely clumsy, I agree, but still not very good. And anyway, the logic of leaving the Single Market because of the Posted Worker Directive is, well, flawed.

I see that BMW are making the new Mini in Oxford, after discussions with the relatively sane Greg Clark. Wouldn't it be funny if the Tories were going to do Soft Brexit all along, and Gardiner and Corbyn were marooned with Hard Brexit?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see Corbyn and McDonnell voted for an EU referendum in 2011.

Well done, chaps.

[johnr]

These 2 comments, from Zelo Street (in response to a piece about Coirbyn's Brexit), were quite interesting:

'I'd doubt if Owen Jones has much insight into or access to the thoughts and intentions of the inner Labour leadership since he was strongly opposed to Corbyn right up until 10 o'clock on election night. Most of the other commentators you quote are likewise from The Graun and have pro-Europe views and are strongly anti-Corbyn.

On the UKIP vote I think at the laat election a unexpectedly high percentage returned to their Labour roots rather than voting Tory, which held the Labour vote up especially in the NW. In fact, the latest shennanigans over the simultaneous ending of the TransPennine and other provincial electrifications while Crossrail2 sails ahead in London will probably get even more northern UKIPers returning.

Perhaps it comes down to whether a new general election or the Article 50 culmination comes first. With May's government seemingly retreating into an instinctive Home Counties seige mentality, most working class Kippers are likely to plump for Labour jobs over Conservative leaving Europe. Indeed, Corbyn's policy of "masterly inactivity" over Europe seems both wise and effective.If he pulls it off its likely a Norway II deal will be quietly worked out with the Europeans.'

'Labour have 3 options as I see it, play the long game and say as little as they can reasonably get away with. Allow the forthcoming economic catastrophe to unfold, where upon the blame will be squarely laid at the feet of those who created it.

Alternatively, accept that the referendum was a binary choice between 2 simplistic options but explain that you can honour the result while staying in the single market through other existing mechanisms (EFTA/EEA) and thus avoid worst of the economic pitfalls.

Third, press for a second referendum on whatever deal, or no deal, the Tory's recommend. Be seen as the party that gave voters the choice based upon the reality of what Brexit actually means.

The pitfalls of the first option are that they may be seen as not doing enough to avoid the economic Armageddon. The downside of the second option is that they run the risk of alienating some of their core support. The issue with the third option is, there is no way of knowing if TEU 50 is reversible. After 2 years of negotiating the EU27 may simply say go to hell (or words to that effect).

[Patrick Thistle]

The fourth (and harder) option is perhaps go out and engage their "core support" (does anyone know who these are, these semi mythical rump working class who voted in anger for UKIP as a direct alternative to Labour?) and try to persuade them that we are better off in the EU.

But Jeremy's heart isn't in it. Deep down he wants out of "that capitalist thing".

[johnr]

The fourth (and harder) option is perhaps go out and engage their "core support" (does anyone know who these are, these semi mythical rump working class who voted in anger for UKIP as a direct alternative to Labour?) and try to persuade them that we are better off in the EU.

But Jeremy's heart isn't in it. Deep down he wants out of "that capitalist thing".

I don't know what he thinks deep down, but if it's the hardest option of all then I can see why he wouldn't want to do it.

As an aside, I did meet one of that semi mythical group when out canvassing. It was one of the things that made me go straight down the bookies afterwards and put fifty quid on our Labour candidate.

[johnr]

Blimey, John McTernan has joined Momentum (in a link I can't be bothered to find on Sky News). I think I'm pleased, but I'm not sure.

[ooh aah]

Sounds like a case of "entryism" to me

[johnr]

I was at the rally to launch the conference last night - the first of its type - with about 6000 there, mainly not the usual mix of lefty groups, mostly yer student types. Stirring stuff.

Though much more interesting is The World Transformed festival (programme). I went to one talk on why/if Labour has lost touch with the working class - to be clear, we weren't talking about 'the white working class' so beloved of commentators, but 'the working class' - and volunteered on one about 'radical childcare'. It might all seem a bit arcane, but there really is a buzz about the city because of the additional people, and ideas, that TWT brings to the, ahem, party. An event about 'how and why the pundits got the GE wrong' pulled in over a thousand people. To see a panel discuss it.

It's not all about Corbyn, but it is about Corbynism. There's some amazing activism going on - the digital hub thing is a bit mindblowing - and, for once in my life, a feeling that it might actually get somewhere.

[Patrick Thistle]

Did anyone say the unmentionable thing that there isn't a working class anymore to get in touch with?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Labour hasn't lost touch with the working class. Labour has lost touch with old people, because old people have finally gone full blown Sociopath in their old age

[johnr]

Did anyone say the unmentionable thing that there isn't a working class anymore to get in touch with?

Not unmentionable at all, because somebody mentioned it; the general consensus though - although I left before the end - was that there is very much a working class (I mean, I'm one for a start), and that that class includes everybody from Uber drivers to postal workers to waiters - those who sell their labour whilst others profit enormously.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Labour hasn't lost touch with the working class. Labour has lost touch with old people, because old people have finally gone full blown Sociopath in their old age

Cameron threw money and Europhobia at them.

[Gerontophile]

Someone threw money at me once. Didn't make me a cunt.

[Snake Plissken]

Was it as the third ping pong ball arced its way across the stage?

[Gerontophile]

Oh, you beautiful bastard. <APPLAUSE>

(Which just reminded me of the joke about the first violinist who says to the second violinist, "Someone has just lobbed some cum at me', and the second replied 'well, you have been playing like a cunt all night'.)

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Fucking tough crowd.

[Tubby Isaacs]

So no vote on the Single Market then. Less important than a (likely ill-informed) vote on rail, apparently.

[Snake Plissken]

When your opponent is digging themselves into a hole, don't hand them a ladder.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's Britain being dug into the hole. The Conservative Party aren't doing anything like as badly as they should be.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Did anyone say the unmentionable thing that there isn't a working class anymore to get in touch with?

Eh?

[Tubby Isaacs]

simon wren-lewis
I can imagine that just possibly, at the margin, if Labour are not clever the EU could once of twice be a problem. Brexit will be every day.

Yep.

[Gerontophile]

Why oh Why, oh WHY...

Incidentally Tubbs, there was no (sic) in your last post. And incidentally Tubbs, you really sound as if you are enjoying this.