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    #51
    Heathrow 3rd runway

    I don't particularly see a need for making a profit out of public transport. The priority should be to provide decent and wide-ranging links to as many people as need them. (There could well be freight-carrying advantages to extending the reach of the rail network too.)

    Comment


      #52
      Heathrow 3rd runway

      ursus arctos wrote: Six to Palma.

      There are more than a dozen routes from LHR just to Spain, not even taking into account any other place in Europe where the sun shines.

      Suggesting the point is the equivalent of internet trolling is really quite silly.
      Edit- I was a piqued there, but overreacted. We can certainly lose those to Palma. But I think the bucket and spade point is overdone with Heathrow.

      Comment


        #53
        Heathrow 3rd runway

        Jimski wrote: I don't particularly see a need for making a profit out of public transport. The priority should be to provide decent and wide-ranging links to as many people as need them. (There could well be freight-carrying advantages to extending the reach of the rail network too.)
        They've certainly concentrated on running more trains on the existing network to more destinations in the last few years, rather than building new lines, and that does seem harsh.

        I assume it's down to what they think the taxpayer will fund, and worry about new lines requiring ongoing more ongoing "subsidy". I don't know whether that's unnecessarily conservative.

        Are you still having to drive to Station Road to work? That was pretty much rubbing your nose in it, wasn't it?

        Comment


          #54
          Heathrow 3rd runway

          Wondered if you saw this from a few years ago, Jimski about re-opening lines.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecting_Communities:_Expanding_Access_to_the_Ra il_Network

          It ties in what you said about providing rail links to decent numbers of people as a priority over narrow cost concerns.

          Washington, Tyne and Wear, population 67,000, jumps out.

          Comment


            #55
            Heathrow 3rd runway

            I found this CityMetric piece interesting yesterday, on why the idea that Heathrow needs to or realistically can become a UK hub airport is bollocks.

            Comment


              #56
              Heathrow 3rd runway

              Wouldn't think there's much doubt it could be a hub airport.

              But interesting on whether the UK as a whole "needs" one at all.

              Cheers.

              Comment


                #57
                Heathrow 3rd runway

                We were Airstrip One in 1984, weren't we?

                Comment


                  #58
                  Heathrow 3rd runway

                  If you are doing this for The City, you don't really want it to be a hub, do you?

                  The "concept" appears to suffer from a common affliction with pharaonic projects, in which multiple (and to some extent conflicting) "advantages" and "opportunities" are seen in the best possible light, while countervailing factors are downplayed or ignored.

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Heathrow 3rd runway

                    What we might call Olympic Stadium Syndrome - or just Big Project Cock Waving in general

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Heathrow 3rd runway

                      The political impetus seems to be much more towards big projects now.

                      In rail, the experience of the West Coast Mainline upgrade is very influential in that, with all the problems of trying to work on a very busy line. New build stuff like Crossrail and HS1 and 2 is seen as much easier to manage and predict.

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                        #61
                        Heathrow 3rd runway

                        ursus arctos wrote: If you are doing this for The City, you don't really want it to be a hub, do you?
                        Maybe more the region than the city, I suppose.

                        Comment


                          #62
                          Heathrow 3rd runway

                          Just like the Olympic Stadium, then.

                          When do we get the stories about the "regeneration" of West London and Berkshire?

                          Comment


                            #63
                            Heathrow 3rd runway

                            What is all this bollocks with business types "needing" to fly, anyway?

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                              #64
                              Heathrow 3rd runway

                              Every single organisation I know (including the one I partially own) is trying to cut back significantly on air travel, and many are investing quite a bit of money in alternatives.

                              Perhaps it's like smoking, the projections are premised on the idea that it will take a few decades for the Chinese and Emiratis to cotton on to the health effects.

                              Comment


                                #65
                                Heathrow 3rd runway

                                Well yes, air traffic projections are utter balls, of course.

                                Comment


                                  #66
                                  Heathrow 3rd runway

                                  I would think air traffic projections are closely tied up with projections of economic growth. That was overestimated, so I suppose air traffic was too.

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    Heathrow 3rd runway

                                    They are bound to be linked, of course. But that doesn't mean they aren't also bollocks in and of themselves.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      Heathrow 3rd runway

                                      Some numbers and very nice graphs.

                                      http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/AviationTrends_Q4_2014.pdf

                                      Looks a lot like the UK economy- passengers and cargo tonnage at about the pre-recession peak.

                                      But commercial flights seem to be some way below the peak. Evidence of what Ursus said?

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        Heathrow 3rd runway

                                        Tubby Isaacs wrote: Wondered if you saw this from a few years ago, Jimski about re-opening lines.

                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecting_Communities:_Expanding_Access_to_the_Ra il_Network

                                        It ties in what you said about providing rail links to decent numbers of people as a priority over narrow cost concerns.

                                        Washington, Tyne and Wear, population 67,000, jumps out.
                                        I hadn't seen this before, but interesting stuff. Thanks for the link.

                                        Here in Oxfordshire they are in the process of building a new line. Initially it just links a new Oxford station - near Kidlington - to London Marylebone, but will eventually (hopefully) provide the basis of a resurrection of the old Oxford-Cambridge line.

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          Heathrow 3rd runway

                                          Oxford seems to be "thriving" for want of a better word, so I'd hope something would come of that.

                                          Good to see you here again.

                                          Comment


                                            #71
                                            Heathrow 3rd runway

                                            Oxford is "thriving" in many senses (and a lovely, truly multi-cultural place to live), but certainly not in the sense of housing provision, unfortunately.

                                            And, thanks, I've been around much of the time actually - my posting frequency tends to vary from little to nil thanks to time constraints though.

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              Heathrow 3rd runway

                                              E10 Rifle wrote: What we might call Olympic Stadium Syndrome - or just Big Project Cock Waving in general
                                              There is clearly a difference between a stadium built for a once in a generation event and a facility to accommodate for the transport needs of 16 million people that is already straining and projected to grow.

                                              Not that some airport plans aren't immune from albielephantiasis, in Montreal for example agricultural land was expropriated in the 1960s to build a large new airport well north of the city. Mirabel Airport was eventually shut down for lack of use. In that case demand projections turned out to be unrealistic largely due to Toronto overshadowing Montreal as the economic capital of Canada, a development which was totally unforeseen at planning time. I don't think that is going to be the case for London.

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                Heathrow 3rd runway

                                                Jimski wrote: Oxford is "thriving" in many senses (and a lovely, truly multi-cultural place to live), but certainly not in the sense of housing provision, unfortunately.

                                                And, thanks, I've been around much of the time actually - my posting frequency tends to vary from little to nil thanks to time constraints though.
                                                Good to hear that.

                                                Where you live sounds very much like where I live. Except without Boris Johnson.

                                                Comment


                                                  #74
                                                  Heathrow 3rd runway

                                                  TonTon wrote: Well yes, air traffic projections are utter balls, of course.
                                                  Got one for you.

                                                  The DfT also provide estimates (revised thanks to the recession) of how passenger demand will change in the coming years.

                                                  They show that in 2010 about 211 million people used UK airports. By 2030, if no runways or terminals are built in the UK, this is set to increase to 315 million.
                                                  Not just probably balls, but balls accorded credibility by an otherwise very good site.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    Heathrow 3rd runway

                                                    Benjm wrote: Harman's rep as a decent caretaker is hardly likely to be enhanced either.
                                                    I find this quite hard to get over. Who gave her this reputation? What country do they live in? How rarely do they read newspapers? What were they smoking, and can I have some?

                                                    Comment

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