For once (and it is truly rare) I am with Boris Johnson and against the Labour Party. Why on earth are Labour backing this scheme? Is it pure politicking, trying to inflict a commons defeat on Cameron? Or do they actually believe we need to increase the level of air traffic in the world?
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Poor Harmondsworth won't exist if this goes ahead. It's not exactly Britain's Most Beautiful Village but it's a community, with a church nearly 1,000 years old. -
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Labour are so shit. It's frightening.Comment
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Hammondworth: pop. 1,480.
Heathrow Int'l Airport annual passenger traffic: 16,364,246.
I really don't get the nimbyism, I guess it's a cultural divide I haven't been able to breech. You look at real estate prices in places like London or San Francisco, you see places that are completely distorted and socially dislocated by an artificial lack of housing due to low densities imposed by cultural barriers.
Furthermore, you can't criticize the expansion at Heathrow on one hand and fly to Prague, NYC or Hanoi on the other.Comment
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There's plenty of capacity at UK airports, and expanding airport capacity is a bad idea anyway. I'm against another runway.
Labour attacking Johnson from the right is...well I guess it's quite funny, I suppose, in the end. #jezwecan right?Comment
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It's bemusing to think that an outfit called the Airports Commission couldn't really propose not to have another runway at any specific locale. It's like having the headline '100 More Adult Book Shops Approved By The Hard-On Committee.'
Answer's in the title, really.Comment
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Is Johnson against the third run way at heathrow? that would surprise me as he is now MP for Uxbridge which relies heavily on Heathrow for employmentComment
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I suppose it's the fact they won't have Back Yards to be NIMBY about. Or houses.linus wrote:
I really don't get the nimbyismComment
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I think even Johnson would struggle to flip so hard on this one. Never say never, mind.rick derris wrote: Is Johnson against the third run way at heathrow? that would surprise me as he is now MP for Uxbridge which relies heavily on Heathrow for employmentComment
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They were against a third runway as recently as last autumn and it is hard to find anything that confirms a change in position. If this was just an off the cuff/fag packet move to give Cameron some short term discomfort it is likely to come back and haunt them. Harman's rep as a decent caretaker is hardly likely to be enhanced either.Jimski wrote: Why on earth are Labour backing this scheme? Is it pure politicking, trying to inflict a commons defeat on Cameron?
Of the mayoral candidates, David Lammy (Tottenham, NE London) has said that he is all in favour, Sadiq Khan (Tooting, SW) that he will do all he can to stop it. The former is considerably thicker than the latter, so there may be something in those positions beyond simple proximity to the airport.Comment
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Yes, you can. If a government is prioritising air travel over all others, leading to the cheapest way to get anywhere being to fly, then obviously people are more likely to fly than use other methods of transport. Individual people changing their individual habits won't particularly affect this significantly - what it needs is proper government policy change.linus wrote:
Furthermore, you can't criticize the expansion at Heathrow on one hand and fly to Prague, NYC or Hanoi on the other.Comment
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Yeah, Johnson is widely quoted as saying he would lie down, Arthur Dent style, in front of the bulldozers.TonTon wrote:I think even Johnson would struggle to flip so hard on this one. Never say never, mind.Originally posted by rick derrisComment
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Lammy is the worst Labour mayoral hopeful by a fair way, isn't he?Comment
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In a competitive field, yes.TonTon wrote: Lammy is the worst Labour mayoral hopeful by a fair way, isn't he?Comment
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Boris's argument does seem to include a certain element of "South West London already suffers enough from Heathrow, let's move the problem to Essex where no-one [strike] votes Tory[/strike]matters". He's not arguing that London doesn't need another international terminal, he just doesn't want it at Heathrow.Comment
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More importantly why are people in Newcastle "welcoming" it, when all it will do is suck yet more money, revenue, and opportunity out of the English regions?Jimski wrote: For once (and it is truly rare) I am with Boris Johnson and against the Labour Party. Why on earth are Labour backing this scheme? Is it pure politicking, trying to inflict a commons defeat on Cameron? Or do they actually believe we need to increase the level of air traffic in the world?
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/recommended-heathrow-expansion-would-benefit-9561481Comment
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Jowell is worse than Lammy.
All this debate proves is that all these protestations that political leaders and "opinion-formers" that they give the remotest shit about probably the most important global issue there is, are liesComment
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rmAnd the population of Heath Row (sic) is what, exactly?linus wrote: Hammondworth: pop. 1,480.
Heathrow Int'l Airport annual passenger traffic: 16,364,246.
I really don't get the nimbyism, I guess it's a cultural divide I haven't been able to breech. You look at real estate prices in places like London or San Francisco, you see places that are completely distorted and socially dislocated by an artificial lack of housing due to low densities imposed by cultural barriers.
Furthermore, you can't criticize the expansion at Heathrow on one hand and fly to Prague, NYC or Hanoi on the other.
In any case, as has been noted, there's capacity and the opportunity to expand at other (regional) airports and start diverting some of the cash that London keeps amassing for itself to the rest of the country.
PS. Is Sipson scheduled for demolition under this barmpot plan too?Comment
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The aviation industry's approach to concerns about pollution and noise from increased activity is essentially that they'll invent some cleaner, quieter planes by then so there's no problem. The mainstream political view on climate change seems to have settled into the same kind of wishful thinking writ larger: we'll have come up with something by the time it gets really bad (or even worse, more accurately).E10 Rifle wrote: Jowell is worse than Lammy.
All this debate proves is that all these protestations that political leaders and "opinion-formers" that they give the remotest shit about probably the most important global issue there is, are lies
I've RSVPed for the Labour mayoral hustings in Southall, which could get interesting on the airport issue.Comment
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Well it wasn't a yes or no decision on the third runway. It was a choice between two Heathrow proposals, a Gatwick proposal and the new estuary airport proposal. And that was just the shortlist.It's bemusing to think that an outfit called the Airports Commission couldn't really propose not to have another runway at any specific locale. It's like having the headline '100 More Adult Book Shops Approved By The Hard-On Committee.'Comment
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Being residents of leafy Teddington, we've been keeping an eye on the developments and are now finding ourselves in an odd position of relying on Conservative politicians to do the right for the people.
What's been really striking about the pro-Heathrow campaign is how dirty and full of shit it's been - from the pro-Heathrow "grassroots" campaign funded by Heathrow to those totally WTF posters claiming that local residents were all for it.Comment
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Labour supported Heathrow Expansion in 2009, and Ken Livingstone had supported it before that.Jimski wrote: For once (and it is truly rare) I am with Boris Johnson and against the Labour Party. Why on earth are Labour backing this scheme? Is it pure politicking, trying to inflict a commons defeat on Cameron? Or do they actually believe we need to increase the level of air traffic in the world?
They might or might not be right, but their position has been much more genuine than the Conservatives. It was green branding and worry about seats under the flight path.
Literally everyone agreed that the Davies Commission with the terms set for it would recommend Heathrow expansion and it has done, after costing £20m.
Perhaps, channeling Jeremy Hunt an the , Cameron and McGloughlin can walk around with a sign on them saying "£20m paid for by the British taxpayer to keep an awkward issue out of the way till after the election".Comment
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Philip Stevens in the FT
Stevens' debunking of the "business case" is especially persuasive to me (though I've never been a fan of LHR).Britain’s Airports Commission has done what was expected of it. It has called for a third runway at Heathrow. You do not have to be a cynic to suspect policy-based evidence-making. Unkind souls might call the report an establishment stitch-up. Never mind. Its conclusions are destined for the long grass. The pity is that money, time and energy will be wasted on a debate that can have only one outcome. Forget the commission’s expensively deceptive cost-benefit analyses. The runway will never be built.Comment
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I don't agree with that.
The report could have been set up so that it was much harder to recommend Heathrow. The most obvious weakness to me of the proposals are the conditions round Heathrow. Set a reasonably high bar for these and Heathrow is ruled out.
Howard Davies is pretty much as "heavyweight" as you can get for people who write reports for governments (ex CBI chief, Deputy Governor of the Bank, and Chairman of the FSA). Would he have wasted his time if it weren't serious?Comment
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I expect Heathrow have the clout to topple Cameron and Johnson if they really try and make things difficult.Comment
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