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    #51
    Uber something less than Alles

    The thing about this Rise Of The New Middle-Men that never seems to be addressed is that it's basically imperialism. It doesn't really matter that Uber, say, doesn't pay any tax, because taxi drivers don't pay any either, so no great loss to the Exchequer. But the difference is, surely, that the profits will be distributed to US shareholders instead of business people of varying sizes across various localities in the UK, so it's classic wealth extraction. Sure, the colonial administrative bods in the UK will make a few bob, but it will shrink economic ac.

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      #52
      Uber something less than Alles

      Well, the idea is it frees hundreds of people up to be productive by improving by consolidating to one.

      Clearly the problem is that the hundreds of radio cab folk won't necessarily be the most useful additions to the jobseeking workforce.

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        #53
        Uber something less than Alles

        It'll free up more accountants to do productive work, though.

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          #54
          Uber something less than Alles

          "Disruption", in economic terms, is almost always the substitution of an inferior product (e.g. mp3s' sound quality is nothing that of CDs) at a great gain in convenience and/or cost.

          Sometimes that's a good thing! Turns out, most people didn't actually need or want the extra fidelity of CD-quality recording. But there are things for which regulations to stop a dangerously inferior product are really, really important. Taxis, for the safety of customers, are usually one of those. It's actually completely irrelevant that Ubers are usually better kept, and friendlier, or whatever. It's really important that there be at least a minimum level of civic oversight of these things. And some cartels' abusing that need doesn't alter it either.

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            #55
            Uber something less than Alles

            Good summary of the current state of play in NYC

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              #56
              Uber something less than Alles

              Toro Toro wrote: Taxis, for the safety of customers, are usually one of those. It's actually completely irrelevant that Ubers are usually better kept, and friendlier, or whatever.
              Hmm. I hear the taxis and safety thing a lot. But what, specifically? Taxi drivers have drivers' licenses. So do Uber drivers. They both carry insurance. But Uber drivers, I believe, also have a rating system, encouraging better service and upkeep of cars, etc.

              I'm not sure why civic oversight is such a necessity in ferrying people from point a to point b.

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                #57
                Uber something less than Alles

                The argument works better in locales where there is actual regulation and supervision over drivers' qualifications (particularly knowledge of the locale) and behaviour (particularly w/r/t accidents).

                Largely because of regulatory capture by the taxi interests, North American cities tend to be crap on both counts.

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                  #58
                  Uber something less than Alles

                  How many jurisdictions are as stringent as London with 'the knowledge' test as so on? In Toronto, you're qualified if you're sitting upright and eating solid foods.

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                    #59
                    Uber something less than Alles

                    I don't know of any that match "Knowledge" standards, which is why you don't see 30 year old men tooling around town on motorbikes with clipboards anywhere other than London.

                    The New York "local knowledge" test is quite basic, even after being made significantly more rigourous recently.

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                      #60
                      Uber something less than Alles

                      Some towns in England have mini-knowledges. My dad did Cheltenham's version. We had fun driving around preparing for it. Good job we did, it was pretty hard.

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                        #61
                        Uber something less than Alles

                        I read that as "we were pretty hard". Imagining you and your Dad being a right pair of geezers.

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                          #62
                          Uber something less than Alles

                          I'm not sure why civic oversight is such a necessity in ferrying people from point a to point b.
                          Really? You don't think there should be some oversight of an industry built around getting into strangers' cars late at night?

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                            #63
                            Uber something less than Alles

                            He was pretty handy with a meat cleaver.

                            They used to call him The Butcher.

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                              #64
                              Uber something less than Alles

                              Ginger Yellow wrote:
                              I'm not sure why civic oversight is such a necessity in ferrying people from point a to point b.
                              Really? You don't think there should be some oversight of an industry built around getting into strangers' cars late at night?
                              Well, civic oversight of your standard cab industry would consist of what? A plate attached to a taxi, annual tax sticker for same, and some kind of connection between the plate and whoever is driving that specific car on that specific day. Like a company manifest or schedule.

                              Uber basically has the same structure (as I understand it). The only thing that seems lacking is the city-issued plate and tax sticker. What more does it do than a regular license plate does? Uber has a digital record of all driver/passenger connections.

                              Honestly, I don't see what extra value 'the city' is offering.

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                                #65
                                Uber something less than Alles

                                Uber send you the name, picture and registration of the driver who will be picking you up. Along with their star rating.

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                                  #66
                                  Uber something less than Alles

                                  WOM wrote:
                                  Originally posted by Ginger Yellow
                                  I'm not sure why civic oversight is such a necessity in ferrying people from point a to point b.
                                  Really? You don't think there should be some oversight of an industry built around getting into strangers' cars late at night?
                                  Well, civic oversight of your standard cab industry would consist of what? A plate attached to a taxi, annual tax sticker for same, and some kind of connection between the plate and whoever is driving that specific car on that specific day. Like a company manifest or schedule.

                                  Uber basically has the same structure (as I understand it). The only thing that seems lacking is the city-issued plate and tax sticker. What more does it do than a regular license plate does? Uber has a digital record of all driver/passenger connections.

                                  Honestly, I don't see what extra value 'the city' is offering.
                                  You have to oversee Uber's oversight, surely?

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                                    #67
                                    Uber something less than Alles

                                    MsD, do you get a last name in London?

                                    Because it doesn't work that way in New York.

                                    But days went by without Uber and the NYPD sharing information in a way that would have allowed the police to identify Muhammad or interview him. It took until May 5—six days after the incident happened and was reported—for the police to get that information. The NYPD’s public information officer told Jezebel today they are “still trying to identify the driver.”

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                                      #68
                                      Uber something less than Alles

                                      No, first name only.

                                      I've got my journey history on the app, with the car model and reg and a clear photograph of the drivers.

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                                        #69
                                        Uber something less than Alles

                                        Tubby Isaacs wrote:
                                        Originally posted by WOM
                                        Originally posted by Ginger Yellow
                                        I'm not sure why civic oversight is such a necessity in ferrying people from point a to point b.
                                        Really? You don't think there should be some oversight of an industry built around getting into strangers' cars late at night?
                                        Well, civic oversight of your standard cab industry would consist of what? A plate attached to a taxi, annual tax sticker for same, and some kind of connection between the plate and whoever is driving that specific car on that specific day. Like a company manifest or schedule.

                                        Uber basically has the same structure (as I understand it). The only thing that seems lacking is the city-issued plate and tax sticker. What more does it do than a regular license plate does? Uber has a digital record of all driver/passenger connections.

                                        Honestly, I don't see what extra value 'the city' is offering.
                                        You have to oversee Uber's oversight, surely?
                                        I know that all 'surely' statements are meant to be replied to in the "oh, of course" style. But I don't get what value is purporting to be added. Any matter of non-payment of taxes is dealt with through standard revenue channels. Any criminality is dealt with through police channels. And competitive challenges are dealt with, by and large, through self-levelling supply and demand.

                                        I'm not sure what real value is being added through taxation/tag/license regimes and so-called oversight. It sounds like the traditional structures that caused much of the grief in the first place. Who needs it?

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                                          #70
                                          Uber something less than Alles

                                          What grief, in the first place?

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                                            #71
                                            Uber something less than Alles

                                            Limited number of cabs. Shit condition of cars. High prices for plates. Cabals running the whole show in monopolistic fashion. Antiquated technology with low impetus for change.

                                            Different experiences in different cities, though, I realize.

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                                              #72
                                              Uber something less than Alles

                                              We don't have that here. You should all adopt the London system. And kill Uber.

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                                                #73
                                                Uber something less than Alles

                                                No thanks. Too many bad experiences with black cab drivers.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Uber something less than Alles

                                                  WOM wrote:

                                                  I know that all 'surely' statements are meant to be replied to in the "oh, of course" style. But I don't get what value is purporting to be added. Any matter of non-payment of taxes is dealt with through standard revenue channels. Any criminality is dealt with through police channels. And competitive challenges are dealt with, by and large, through self-levelling supply and demand.

                                                  I'm not sure what real value is being added through taxation/tag/license regimes and so-called oversight. It sounds like the traditional structures that caused much of the grief in the first place. Who needs it?
                                                  Sorry for calling you Shirley.

                                                  We used to do what you say with minicabs, with the police as the only "regulator".

                                                  We started licensing them. The minicab firm is made responsible for regulating its drivers to keep its licence.

                                                  If the oversight is half-decent, as I think it is in London, that makes the cabs safer. And saves police time.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Uber something less than Alles

                                                    MsD wrote: No thanks. Too many bad experiences with black cab drivers.
                                                    Really? Like what?

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