Best and Marsh

[Tubby Isaacs]

Few of these on youtube.

Nice, reasonably extensive highlights of games that (edit- I hadn't seen before)- eg Fulham v Hereford, featuring both our heroes. After the game Best told the interviewer everyone had to believe they were serious now. Hereford at home, didn't get more serious than that.

Tony Wilson enjoys himself but can't get much anayltical flair out of the two ex flair players. Best says "difference between great goalscorer and scorer of great goals", and Marsh maybe has never heard it before.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Best and Marsh

They put up a caption with Malcolm MacDonalds's goalscoring record "in the seventies".

They should have had Mud doing the theme tune, not New Order.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Best and Marsh

I miss Tony Wilson.

EDIT: And those were the days when New Order used to throw out brilliant tunes like this for fun.

[Benjm]

Best and Marsh

You're not feeling confident about the new album, Geoffrey?

I'm reading the book of 24 Hour Party People at the moment and it is massively enjoyable. Wilson's voice is as unmistakeable on the page as in life.

[imp]

Best and Marsh

The Hereford game is so well known because it was, luckily for Fulham, televised. Certainly they took the piss that day, but it was a rare occurence - for much of that season Best and Marsh were either injured or, in Best's typical case, AWOL, and Fulham almost went down to the third division.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Best and Marsh

Serious as that?

[imp]

Best and Marsh

They finished 17th., one point ahead of Carlisle in 20th., and Cardiff and Orient, who both escaped relegation on goal difference. The myth is that Best and Marsh "doubled the crowds" at Craven Cottage, but it doesn't stand up to statistical scrutiny. It was a failed attempt to replicate the North American Soccer League in south-west London.

[Tony C]

Best and Marsh

I detest that game, all the high fiving bullshit and basic lack of respect of the essence of the game that is displayed in it. Of course it would suit Marsh down to the ground- the stepover king with a hugely over-inflated sense of self worth and a single League Cup winners medal in his cabinet, taking the piss out of mismatched opponents. Best was on a different planet as a footballer but his collusion here is a blotch on his legacy rather than a tick - the pair of them look like a pair of classless tossers, engaging in the football equivalent of seal clubbing and having a laugh about it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Best and Marsh

The commentary mentions doubling the crowds.

[imp]

Best and Marsh

Yes, and so did Marsh when I interviewed him for 'Rock n Roll Soccer', but when I looked at the stats it just wasn't true. For a couple of games initially the crowds were up (though not double), and they remained higher for a while compared with the previous season, but they didn't double.

@TonyC - yesterday I was watching German TV highlights of Rangers beating Bayern Munich 2-0 at Ibrox in 1972 in the second leg of the semi-final of the Cup Winners' Cup. Willie Johnston absolutely ravaged Bayern that night. Then at one point in the second half (17 minutes into the above video) he takes the ball out to the left wing and makes as if to sit on it. The German commentator, who up until then had been full of praise for Rangers and highly critical of Bayern, gets very indignant and twice calls it "unsporting".

I've got mixed feelings about this kind of thing. I agree with you that against Hereford it's pure showboating. But a cheeky Scotsman against a side featuring Beckenbauer and Müller? I'm all for it. And Marsh did the same thing in the NASL a few years later against Pelé and the arrogant Cosmos, and in that context it was a significant gesture of 'fuck you'.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Best and Marsh

Rodney Marsh is the worst ever commentator on a penalty shootout ever in the world ever.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Best and Marsh

Benjm wrote: You're not feeling confident about the new album, Geoffrey?

I'm reading the book of 24 Hour Party People at the moment and it is massively enjoyable. Wilson's voice is as unmistakeable on the page as in life.

I haven't like anything since Republic and even in that the writing was on the wall. Gillian Gilbert is back though, so the quality control should rise quite considerably. However as much of a tosser as he is, it's not New Order without Hooky.

As for Wilson, have you read Shadowplayers? It's a great read but I particularly liked sketch of the relationship between Gretton and Wilson. The eternal struggle at the heart of Factory between wanting POP hits (Gretton) and wanting avant-garde (Wilson). Wilson had his flaws, but he was a genuine one off.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Best and Marsh

It's easy to dislike Rodney Marsh — especially if you're a Man City supporter. He ticked a lot of bad-boy boxes. Arrogant, yes. Prone to showing up oppo players, yes. No respect for his footballing elders, or football authorities, double yes.

But was he a good footballer? Without doubt. Did the crowds love/hate him? Fuck yes. Look at the numbers. In 1965 QPR's average gate was 5,670, lower than at any time since WW1. Marsh arrived in Spring 1966. Two promotions later, by 1969, the average attendance was 21,579.

Not all of that was down to him but much of it was. He scored almost exactly a goal every other game during his six years at Loftus Road, but spent most of our first season in the top division injured. We won four matches that year and accumulated 18 points. That was the Marsh difference.

However, much like our recent ball-playing genius, Adel Taraabt, I suspect Marsh wasn't emotionally cut out to play at the very top of the game. Enough self-awareness to recognise his own talent, but not enough to know, or perhaps care, what others thought. The game was all about him, and when you're playing with the very best, that just won't work.

His bio, BTW, is worth a read. Hard as nails childhood, explains a lot.