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World Cup qualification: CONCACAF

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    Might just be merciful to not have to watch this very uninspired side embarrass themselves in Russia.

    EDIT - looking at replay of Panama's "equalizer" -- no way it was anywhere near going over the line. Still, well done Panama and Honduras - no pissing around, balls out and play to win it.
    Last edited by Cal Alamein; 11-10-2017, 02:13.

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      Would fancy Australia to beat Honduras. Intrigued by Panama but pessimistic for them in the finals.

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        Twellman rant:

        http://www.espnfc.com/conversation?gameId=466968

        First US non-qualification since 1986, which I think makes it the longest streak of qualifications to be broken this year (unless Italy loses the play-off).
        Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 11-10-2017, 02:41.

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          It’s fine. It might lead to Gulati finally getting he boot and some more long term changes.

          It probably had to come to this because otherwise we’d just keep puttering along doing the same things and barely scraping into he knockout round and never getting further.

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            Very well summarized.

            Loved Twellman's rant -- doubt we'll see anything too drastic -- hope I'm wrong.

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              Can't believe I've woken up to the US being out. Blimey.

              What is that Twellman link supposed to do? I just get the scoreline?

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                Try this
                http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20985415

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                  What a way to exit for USA - a scuffed own goal and a long-range shot the 'keeper should have saved, all in front of a near-empty stadium

                  I was watching the rolling updates on the BBC website which was tense enough, so it must have made great viewing to those watching it on the tele as the goals in all 3 matches rained in and the scenario changed every few minutes.

                  Here's the other two games:

                  Honduras V Mexico


                  Panama V Costa Rica (dodgy equaliser for Panama)


                  So it's now Honduras V Australia in the play-off. I know about Australia (who aren't very good) but not a lot about Honduras, apart from the fact I like the big H on their jerseys.

                  Comment


                    I don't know who fires Sunil but that needs to happen. It's one thing to blame the coaches (first Jurgen and now Arena) but we haven't qualified for the Olympics in ages (2008?). We made the 1/4 final in the last U20 but prior to that I don't think we've done a lot there either. In other words, Sunil's leadership has led to some bad choices in the last decade.

                    And if you think about youth development, many of the better players in recent years have been players Jurgen pulled out of Germany. And Pulisic is a Dortmund product, not someone who emerged from US Soccer's system.
                    Last edited by danielmak; 11-10-2017, 05:11.

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                      I admit I just relaxed my boycott for a few minutes to watch those highlights. The Panama number 7 was pulled down by the shirt from behind before the first 'goal', so you can allow that one. Mexico's attempt to spring the offside trap there looks highly suspicious. Almost choked on my muesli this morning when frau imp told me the US was out. Refused to believe her ("Are you sure you've got that right, love? Surely they at least made the playoffs."). I'm so so sorry for Bruce Arena hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha serves you right you cunt for humiliating me in the NYRB locker room whenever the hell it was, eight or nine years ago, but Bruce baby, no one gets away with that. Suck it, you old fat, arrogant bag of pompous pus.
                      (Not that I'm one to hold a grudge.)

                      Good thing for US soccer if they wake up and realise it's time for a complete revolution. Out with loud Brit coaches and their expensive 'elite' academies, and pay-to-play for suburban white kids with no flair or technique. Stop looking to college soccer for new players, aged 22 or 23 and unfit for the professional game because they've been mis-coached for almost 20 years.

                      This was my analysis just before I left the US in 2014. Many others have been saying the same thing, though. And so far we've all been ignored because you can't argue with the workings of the market and its invisible hand (that's feeding expensive academies). This Guardian piece from last year was a much more thorough look at the inherent racism of the US youth set-up.

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                        I literally have no memory of the US not making the World Cup, I was seven months old in 1986. I don't even really follow the national team as a going concern outside of the Gold Cup and the World Cups, because access in the UK is so difficult and the time zone differences are so great, but also because they always qualify so why stress?

                        This is a devastating loss born from a systemic failure to democratize and meritize (is that a word?) the US game, and should really prompt some very-long-overdue root-and-branch reform of the US system. Gulati has no shame if he hasn't resigned already, he's presided over a system that is basically nothing but rent-seeking vampires looking to get rich at the expense of the US soccer common good. Pay-to-play, college, MLS. Klinsmann had some idea what the problem was, but was too incompetent and too uninterested in kissing certain people's asses to really fix it, but there can't be any sacred cows now.

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                          Apparently there were 27 result permutations between Honduras, Panama and USA, only one of which would lead to USA elimination. Ha ha.

                          Looking forward to Panama at a World Cup, not sure if they'll be Costa Rica style "surprise" packages, or El Salvador 1982 no hopers.

                          Will also be good to see Honduras duffing up AUS in the play offs, at the last World Cup Honduras were rubbish at football, but managed to be endearingly thuggish.

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                            Imp, please give details of the Bruce Arena encounter.

                            Comment


                              At least Donald Trump doesn't have to worry about how soccer players react to the nstional anthem on a world stage.

                              Comment


                                I had to trawl the archives, and it wasn't exactly like I mis-remember. I wrote it up the next day on a blog I was writing at the time for US Soccer Players, just over 10 years ago, so this must be the real version:

                                There’s an initiation rite that all soccer journalists in this country must undergo before they’re accepted into the community. It involves a world weary coach and a massive reduction in height, and last night it was finally my turn to be inducted into the Arena of Shame…

                                Don’t Bring Me Down, Brooooooosss!*

                                When New York coach Bruce Arena sees journalists approaching him with hand-held digital recorders, he looks about as happy as a Manhattan intellectual cornered at a wedding by the drunken redneck uncle.

                                Yes, Arena’s seen plenty of journalists in his time, and he’s been asked all the questions. Now it’s become his habit to repeat the question back slowly and sardonically to emphasise what he thinks of its quality and depth. On commenting in the locker room at RFK last night that his team had made a “poor start” to the game by going 2-0 down in the first eight minutes, he was asked by a journalist to what he attributed that poor start.

                                “You saw the plays,” he answered. “What do I attribute that to? What do you think? You guys are the experts, what do you think?”

                                Mr. Arena is deploying an off-field tactic here known as ‘irony.’ In truth, he doesn’t really think that journalists are “the experts.” More likely, he thinks that we are cretins. In fact, being put down by Bruce is a US soccer journalist’s initiation rite, and my moment of great disdain finally came last night.

                                “The game seemed to die for the last 45 minutes or so…” I ventured. I’d been so sure that this was the truth, evidenced by my serial yawning in the press box and my almost unstoppable desire to pack up and go home at the 75-minute mark when it was clear that the game was over.

                                “The game seemed to die,” Arena repeated slowly. “What do you mean by that?” 


                                “Erm, well, nothing was happening…” I faltered, now with all the security of a spotty urchin asking Ashley Tisdale for an autograph.

                                “Nothing was happening,” said Arena, loving me and my words so much that he felt compelled to reiterate them once more. “I mean, that’s your…”

                                And he looked away, lapsing into silence. We waited, all of us imagining the words he meant to say at this point, none of them printable here, before Ives Galarcep kindly bailed me out with a new question to distract the increasingly disinterested coach, who eventually broke off the interview by bounding past us and across the locker room to greet Marco Etcheverry, saved at last by a familiar face from the unwelcome uncle(s).

                                At this point the other journalists grinned, hugged me, slapped me on the back, and handed me a t-shirt that read “I’ve Been Broooosed!” Duly scorned by the greatest coach the US game has ever known, and gratefully humbled to have my idiot insights reduced to their true stature by adolescent-style sarcasm, I left RFK feeling happy to be a true soccer hack at just a couple of inches high.

                                * In case there are any readers out there who aren’t fans of late 1970s Electric Light Orchestra (hard to imagine, I know), the headline is a reference to the band’s 1979 hit ‘Don’t Bring Me Down,’ which might have been an acceptable song had the word ‘grooooss’ not been inexplicably warbled after each refrain. I’ve no idea what it was supposed to mean.

                                Funny, though, that the lyrics also contain the lines: “You’re looking good just like a snake in the grass/One of these days you’re gonna break your glass.” Although there’s another rhyme for ‘glass’ that might have worked better.

                                Comments repeated slowly, dripping with contempt, by e-mail to: iplenderleith@xxxxxx.com

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                                  When the USA qualified for 1990 it was a bit of a big deal, having qualified by right ahead of hosting it in 1994, and they used it to gain some attention in the media, leading to a press conference at which, apocryphally, a journalist saw in the notes that they'd qualified by beating Trinidad and Tobago on 19 November (I looked it up, my memory isn't that good), and asked why they'd had to play two teams on the same day. Whether it actually happened, or if it did and it was tongue in cheek, I don't know but yesterday's result reminded me of the tale.

                                  Comment


                                    The head of the USSF is selected by the board of the Federation, and there was already an election scheduled for next year, which is being contested.

                                    Some more details here.. Gans is definitely running, though I don’t know if there is still time for other candidates to emerge.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by imp View Post
                                      I admit I just relaxed my boycott for a few minutes to watch those highlights. The Panama number 7 was pulled down by the shirt from behind before the first 'goal', so you can allow that one. Mexico's attempt to spring the offside trap there looks highly suspicious. Almost choked on my muesli this morning when frau imp told me the US was out. Refused to believe her ("Are you sure you've got that right, love? Surely they at least made the playoffs."). I'm so so sorry for Bruce Arena hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha serves you right you cunt for humiliating me in the NYRB locker room whenever the hell it was, eight or nine years ago, but Bruce baby, no one gets away with that. Suck it, you old fat, arrogant bag of pompous pus.
                                      (Not that I'm one to hold a grudge.)

                                      Good thing for US soccer if they wake up and realise it's time for a complete revolution. Out with loud Brit coaches and their expensive 'elite' academies, and pay-to-play for suburban white kids with no flair or technique. Stop looking to college soccer for new players, aged 22 or 23 and unfit for the professional game because they've been mis-coached for almost 20 years.

                                      This was my analysis just before I left the US in 2014. Many others have been saying the same thing, though. And so far we've all been ignored because you can't argue with the workings of the market and its invisible hand (that's feeding expensive academies). This Guardian piece from last year was a much more thorough look at the inherent racism of the US youth set-up.
                                      We need a Kottadmn Imp in charge. Sunil Cunting Gulati out, Ian in.

                                      I'm in utter shock. Not sad, but really shocked.

                                      I feel great for Panama, who were so close for so long. I'm happy they don't have the playoff, and went straight in. In many ways they're similar to Iceland, who had many years of losing in the playoffs before Euro 2016.

                                      I also feel great for our little confederation. Time and time again, we've proven to have some real dramatic final games. The 3-screen on Univision was awesome.

                                      I don't mind Panama's ugly first goal, but what is the actual rule on that? Can a goal actually be awarded if someone is pulled down and the ball is slapped off the line?

                                      In other words, could a goal have been awarded to Ghana for this?



                                      Or did the ref basically do a reverse-Germany-England 2010, and say the ball magically crossed the line when it was literally nowhere near it? (And in effect, saving the choice of multiple red cards for Costa Rican defenders who liked tackling and slapping?)

                                      Oh yeah, OCHOA BOUNCEOLA DOS

                                      I mean, who's the only clown-shoed comedy keeper in the world that would happen to?

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                                        It has to suck being eliminated on account of an entirely fictitious goal. Makes the Henry vs. Ireland decision look completely legit in comparison.

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                                          Originally posted by Anton Gramscescu View Post
                                          It has to suck being eliminated on account of an entirely fictitious goal. Makes the Henry vs. Ireland decision look completely legit in comparison.
                                          Well, let's not _completely_ gloss over the fact that the USA would still have qualified if they would only have managed to draw against Trinidad & Tobago.

                                          Comment


                                            As Twellman said in his rant, it's about form across all ten games, and the US did not do enough. And the "fictitious goal" is versus the fact that the defenders would have been red carded.

                                            Also, I think we should dispel any rumours that Mexico or C Rica threw these games: the videos show pretty full commitment from all sides.
                                            Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 11-10-2017, 11:32.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View Post
                                              When the USA qualified for 1990 it was a bit of a big deal, having qualified by right ahead of hosting it in 1994, and they used it to gain some attention in the media, leading to a press conference at which, apocryphally, a journalist saw in the notes that they'd qualified by beating Trinidad and Tobago on 19 November (I looked it up, my memory isn't that good), and asked why they'd had to play two teams on the same day. Whether it actually happened, or if it did and it was tongue in cheek, I don't know but yesterday's result reminded me of the tale.
                                              1990 was a bit before my time but there was a really strong feeling that the US had to qualify ahead of 1994 to essentially justify their hosting the World Cup.

                                              Likewise, and I do remember this, there was real terror that they would fail to get out of the group stage in 1994. No host had ever failed to do so and, again, failure would invalidate the decision to give the US the World Cup.

                                              I was strangely bothered by the complete lack of comment on this for South Africa in 2010. I do remember Japan and Korea having the same anxiety.

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                                                I think that the general vibe was that South Africa's hosting was in the name of broader "social" purposes: Mandela, peaceful transition, giving Africa a World Cup, etc., whereas the US and Japan/Korea were seen as commercial plays over and above all else.

                                                There was a indeed a great deal of anxiety in 1990, in part because of the US' failure to qualify in 1986, which was supposed to be the tournament where they built upon the great success (in attendance terms) of the LA Olympic football tournament and the fact that they didn't have to play Mexico in qualifying (as it turned out, a home loss to Costa Rica meant that they didn't even make the final round, which Canada won over the Ticos and Honduras).

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
                                                  I literally have no memory of the US not making the World Cup, I was seven months old in 1986. I don't even really follow the national team as a going concern outside of the Gold Cup and the World Cups, because access in the UK is so difficult and the time zone differences are so great, but also because they always qualify so why stress?

                                                  This is a devastating loss born from a systemic failure to democratize and meritize (is that a word?) the US game, and should really prompt some very-long-overdue root-and-branch reform of the US system. Gulati has no shame if he hasn't resigned already, he's presided over a system that is basically nothing but rent-seeking vampires looking to get rich at the expense of the US soccer common good. Pay-to-play, college, MLS. Klinsmann had some idea what the problem was, but was too incompetent and too uninterested in kissing certain people's asses to really fix it, but there can't be any sacred cows now.
                                                  Klinsmann just wasn't very good at his primary job of coaching the actual current USMNT. And I think saying that he was "unwilling to kiss ass" is giving him too much credit. As far as I can tell, he was very arrogant and just steamed in here and told us that we needed to be like Germany and didn't bother to understand anyone else's perspective or why things are the way they are here.

                                                  Yeah, US youth soccer is probably inherently racist, but only because American society is racist. There's an ironically funny quote in that Guardian piece:

                                                  “I don’t think it’s systematic racism,” says Nick Lusson, the director of NorCal Premier Soccer Foundation an organization to grow soccer in California’s underserved communities. “It’s just a system that has been built with blinders to equality.”

                                                  "A system that has been built with blinders to equality" is probably the best description of systematic racism I've ever heard.

                                                  Yes, the system in other countries is rife with rent-seeking vampires looking to get rich and yet they manage to at least qualify for the World Cup, so that's not necessarily a barrier to success.


                                                  Maybe I'm ignorant, but I just don't see how USSF can fix all of that. They don't operate most of youth soccer, do they? And rich parents are still going to be conned into spending money on their kids soccer "career." It's already completely irrational. How can USSF stop the money from flowing that way. I'd love to hear some ideas for how that can be combated. To me, the only hope is for MLS, USL, and maybe some foreign clubs to have enough money to fund free academies and the soccer equivalent to baseball's RBI Academies to find players in cities that might otherwise not get a chance. The prestige of joining an academy connected to a pro team will draw players and their parents away from the pay-to-play operations and private school-sports factories. But it's going to take a lot of money for that to really take off and be a thing. I know that MLS teams like Philly Union are starting free academies and so forth so that money is starting to trickle in. We'll see how that goes. It hasn't really showed up at the MLS level yet, so maybe it just needs more time? I don't know.

                                                  I'm also just not convinced that the point of all soccer in the US should be to support the national team. Indeed, I believe MLS and the other pro leagues are more important. That's where the real "culture" of the game is and that's where most people will see the game live. I think they can work together, but if I had to pick one, I'd stay with the club game.
                                                  And MLS and USL have to survive and have an obligation to give their own fans competitive soccer. They can't just exist to produce 25 players for the World Cup.

                                                  (Of course, a lot of the pro-rel truthers were out in force saying that promotion/relegation are critical to the success of the US team, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how making professional clubs more economically tenuous helps the national team.)


                                                  And college (and high school) soccer, while not conducive to producing world class players, has been around longer than the World Cup and has it's own merits. Just because Klinsmann didn't get it doesn't mean it's without value. The college coaches are, perhaps, not looking out for the common good. There are a number of things it could do to be better, both for fans and player development - like playing games throughout the academic year and conforming to standard footballing rules. But it could become a great option for guys who aren't quite good enough to make a living at soccer, journeymen who will have a nice career in USL with a few MLS games, and the occasional late bloomer who has a nice MLS career or even international caps.

                                                  I'd like to say that college soccer could be like college baseball or college hockey and be a perfectly good supplement to minor pro or junior leagues, but with Title IX and gridiron being what it is, it's pretty much impossible to get a full or near-full men's soccer scholarship so anyone who can get a pro contract should take it. And college soccer, at least as it is, just doesn't offer enough matches but also has too many matches in a short period. If that changed, it would be better for everyone.
                                                  Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 11-10-2017, 16:32.

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                                                    That's a terrific post, Reed.

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