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  1. #351

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    Why did FIFA let them move?

  2. #352
    ursus arctos's Avatar
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    It was considered a win/win politically.

    The Asian confederation got another large and lucrative market, thus increasing the value of rights to its competitions, while Oceania got a more competitive process than they had before.

    jefe is right about Bradley. He came back for the money. He could easily have signed for a solid Europa League level team in Italy (or Germany), but none of them would have been offering anything close to what MLS did (and that's before one gets to endorsements and other ancillary revenue).

    It's been years since I've spoken to Gulati, but I still feel his current position as poster boy for all of the ills of US soccer is much too facile. While it is certainly true that he fell hook, line and sinker for Klinsmann's Paltrowesque schtick, the problems we are talking about pre-date his tenure, and development has never been his major focus. He's always seen his role as increasing the US' weight in international soccer politics, and has done a more than decent job at that (while getting his hands inevitable dirty in the process). As Reed has argued, I don't see how any single figure, or even a cadre of people at the USSF could reverse the situation on their own. It requires more fundamental changes in the way youth sport is run here.

    A question that I don't know the answer to.

    Is pay-to-play as entrenched for the women? Or are there elements of their development model that are worth looking at? The very white and suburban look of the team makes me think that the answer is no, but I really don't know.

  3. #353
    Satchmo Distel's Avatar
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    Women's college football is very strong. I have taught many women playing for FGCU and, from what I see from their games on video, the football is competitive.

    The racial inequalities thus probably reflect the inequalities in college admission. But note that more women from minorities attend college than the equivalent men so statistically the odds in favour of a black female player appearing for FGCU are higher than a black male, who will be "tracked" into basketball if he has the attributes of a good centre back or striker.

    Latinos, I dunno: Florida should have Latino men pouring into these squads. It would make a good thesis topic.

    I also can't say what the track is like from college to the professional leagues to the national team, and the institutional racism therein, which is not just confined to soccer. Look at the disparity between the proportion of black coaches versus black players, which is institutional racism 101.
    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 12-10-2017 at 14:31.

  4. #354
    Renart's Avatar
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    Title IX has put a lot of money into college women's soccer, to counterbalance all the money put into NCAA (men's gridiron) football.

    Thanks for the welcome back, Cal.

  5. #355
    Hot Pepsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton Gramscescu View Post
    The academy system, you mean? Or youth soccer generally?

    Most soccer is club soccer. a game a week, practice once or twice a week. $500 per season, so $1k/year (outdoor/indoor). Coaches volunteer, fees mostly go for field rentals plus the cost of a tournament or two. Increasingly, clubs will pay for a technical director and maybe a head coach or two whose job it is to support the volunteer coaches. Pitches are of hugely variable quality. In the burbs they are immaculate, or at least as immaculate as they can get in our weather. Downtown we play on any patch of grass available and many fields are shite. As a result, by about age 12, if you haven't migrated to a team in the burbs you won't make it in soccer here (this was something we learned too late).

    Academy soccer is 3x-4x as expensive, IIRC (or at least the one Ben was at was about that - there's one "powerhouse" academy in town called Sigma which is pretty regularly churning out professionals - Cyle Larin went through there for instance - and they may well be more expensive). But the coaching is better and practice is 4x/week.

    The academy and club leagues are totally separate. the two shall not meet. There's been talk of allowing academies into cup competitions, but it doesn't seem imminent.
    $1,000 is not bad value but still beyond the means of many people.

    I suspect it works better in a big city like Toronto where you can play a lot of different teams without going far and teams can recruit from a huge local pool of talent.

    Do public (our definition of public) schools in Canada have soccer teams and do they matter at all? Here, a lot of the top players don't have time to play for their school any more because of their club schedule. It's kind of a shame, really, as Jason has explained on these pages in the past.

  6. #356
    Hot Pepsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renart View Post
    Title IX has put a lot of money into college women's soccer, to counterbalance all the money put into NCAA (men's gridiron) football.

    Thanks for the welcome back, Cal.
    This is true. Women's teams can give out 14 full scholarships whereas men's only gets 9, which the coaches can chop up and spread out among the whole team.*

    Because the professional opportunities in women's soccer still aren't very good, but American university educations are still very desirable, college women's soccer attracts top players from all over the world. Penn State, for example, currently has women that have played at the U-18 and U20 international level for England, Germany, and the US (of course). And Rocky Rodriguez, who scored in the regular (senior?) Women's World Cup for Costa Rica while still a student and then came back to school and lead PSU to a national title two years ago.

    Women's college soccer has more mismatches and blow-outs than men's, but not as many as it used to. The days of UNC just waltzing to the NC every year are long gone.


    Hardly anyone in men's NCAA soccer is on a full-ride, so coaches are largely limited to recruiting players that can find other ways to pay for it, either money from parents or other financial aid. That's really hampered Penn State, which is expensive for a public university because it gets very little public money.

    Men's NCAA soccer has a lot of hustle and athleticism, but not a lot of creativity or flair. The near limitless substitutions, clock counting down with stoppages, and overtime in every game is annoying for those accustomed to the regular rules. And there are a lot of games packed into the fall, and yet it always feels like not enough games overall. And because it's in the fall while football is happening and basketball and hockey are starting up, it tends not to get much attention in the local or campus media. That was even true at W&M.

    Because the very best players no longer play college soccer and just sign a pro deal and because there aren't that many D1 teams, it represents a fairly narrow part of the talent pool. So a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 games, even between teams far apart in the national rankings.

    It's not great, really. I've started to lose interest in it, TBH.


    *http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html
    Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 12-10-2017 at 18:42.

  7. #357
    Amor de Cosmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
    Do public (our definition of public) schools in Canada have soccer teams and do they matter at all? Here, a lot of the top players don't have time to play for their school any more because of their club schedule. It's kind of a shame, really, as Jason has explained on these pages in the past.
    No, not in my experience. It's a club thing. Schools do basketball and volleyball, and the larger ones football.

  8. #358
    Hot Pepsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
    No, not in my experience. It's a club thing. Schools do basketball and volleyball, and the larger ones football.
    That's kind of a shame. Here, even rural schools have soccer because its cheap and not everyone wants to play football. They might not be great teams or have world class coaches, but they're playing the game. At least in Pennsylvania. Not sure about the rest of the country.

  9. #359

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    Where I live at the youth level, pay to play is as bad for girls as it is for boys. In fact, girls who were poor in AYSO were playing for the C team of the big travel team in the city where I live. It was pure money grab. I have no idea why the parents did it other than thinking the girls would feel special with their travel team jackets.

    Thanks for the clarification about the timeline for Bradley, Altidore, and Dempsey. I think AG was the one who said that Altidore and Dempsey are right where they need to be, which is a statement that makes sense. The problem is that they have been there since this round of WCQ started. Of course, the alternatives are slim. But when there are good players, they need to play against better talent. Similarly, seeing Bradley's salary, I get it. If someone offered me that money to do my job in Alaska, I would do it for the life of a contract equal to Bradley's contract. But, from a USMNT it sucks. He was a dominant player before Klinsman moved him into the #10 role and he has looked very average during this WCQ. That could be age, injury, who knows. But quality of competition could be a factor as well.

  10. #360

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    You misunderstood me. I was saying Altidore and Bradley were where they needed to be: i.e. here in Toronto, winning trophies. My indifference to the effect that has on the USMNT is boundless.

  11. #361
    Satchmo Distel's Avatar
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    Should the US reconsider hosting in 2026? They are far more than 8 years away from having a side that could do well there, and the World Cup brand is becoming toxic.

  12. #362
    Hot Pepsi's Avatar
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    The United States’ brand is toxic.

    I don’t think we’re necessarily that far away from.m being at least respectable. The junior national teams are doing ok.

  13. #363
    Hot Pepsi's Avatar
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    This is a good conversation about it.
    http://www.espnfc.us/video/latest-vi.../video/3228413

    I also think about how, 25 years ago, I never could have imagine me ESPN or any US TV network devoting this much time on their schedule or resources to soccer.

  14. #364
    Satchmo Distel's Avatar
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    NBC having a big commitment to soccer is a game changer, I think, helped by the fact that they can show games in the morning, so no clash with NFL.

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