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    #51
    Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

    Harry Truscott wrote: So when are we going to see the winner of that fight (spoiler avoided) against Golovkin? I hope the matchmaking doesn't delay it until the latter is too old for it to be a genuine contest.

    Slightly altered the title, would be good to have a regular thread.

    .
    I agree about the regular thread. The winner was asked about fighting Golovkin, who has a fight coming up next week (?). He said he'll fight anyone. I have a feeling, though, that we'd be looking at Cotto as the preferred next option, with Golovkin to follow.

    I can't say that I have a handle on the various weight divisions right now in that I don't know which fighters are in which divisions (i.e., are Cotto and Golovkin or Kovalev in the same division as Mayweather?). But there are some exciting fighters going right now. In the US those fights tend to happen on HBO, with Showtime seemingly having a weaker crew of fighters.

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      #52
      Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

      Didn't realise Golovkin had a fight this weekend, will look out for that.

      This list of champions helps a little sorting out who is in the differing divisions.

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        #53
        Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

        Golovkin is fighting Willie Monroe in LA (Inglewood, to be precise). It's supposed to be on HBO

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          #54
          Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

          Yes, checked it out and it is on BoxNation over here so won't see it live. Will try and catch up with it somewhere though.

          His last fight with Brit Martin Murray was on Channel 5 so was a rare chance to see a top boxer on terrestrial TV.

          .

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            #55
            Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

            Thanks for that list. I'd say that Kovalev-Stevenson and a round-robin of Glovkin-Cotto-Canelo are really the most exciting options right now. I'd assume that the latter can happen because the best I can tell, the second group is all working with HBO in the US. The former seems a bit more difficult.

            Andre Ward has appeared on HBO a few times as a commentator when Roy Jones couldn't do the analysis and prior to Bernard Hopkins joining the team. It seems that he might have been ducking whoever was lining up to fight him (I can't remember who that was off the top of my head).

            The heavyweight division is sadly dead right now. I don't see many heavyweights on HBO or Showtime, but none have really impressed. That last Klitchko fight was a bit of a snooze.

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              #56
              Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

              Who is this Stephen A Smith guy, his interviews with Mayweather were hilariously brilliant.

              Comment


                #57
                Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                He likes Cheese Doodles, and had his own Heckling Society.

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                  #58
                  Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                  TG, he's one of the biggest names on ESPN. I don't think anyone likes him, but he's loud and opinionated and he has a show where he argues with another host that no one likes.

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                    #59
                    Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                    I can't really remember seeing an interesting flyweight fighter, but this Roman Gonzalez who fought on the undercard of the Golovkin fight was something else. I assume there is a way to chase down HD files of boxing matches since one can basically find files from any sport. Look for his fight against Edgar Sosa.

                    The Golovkin fight went as expected more or less. GGG with two knockdowns in the 2nd. Then Monroe had some good rounds in the 3rd and 4th. Golovkin seemed to let Monroe back in the fight, which I think is a mistake. There's always a chance to get a thumb in the eye, hit with a headbutt, or some other foolishness that leads to problems down the road.

                    Cotto fights in less than a month. We'll see what follows. I'd guess that Canelo will step up against GGG before Cotto gets to it, but we'll see.

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                      Inc, would that be the the idiot Skip Bayliss by any chance?

                      Carnelo is not good enough to step into the rin g with a fully fledged seasoned middleweight like triple G. He has stamina issues and would be knocked out cold.
                      His best bet would be to take on Cotto who he has a better chance against then take a couple of easier fighters like Eubank or Saunders and allow triple G to age a couple of more years. This worked for Hatton when he beat Tzyu.

                      PacMan is really harming his legacy with his sore loser attitude and nonsense about a torn shoulder

                      Comment


                        #61
                        Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                        I think the question is if anyone of significance is willing to take on Golovkin.

                        It would be good (though one of sport's hugest surprises) if the sanctioning bodies did their job and made it happen, though I read that the WBC president will only sanction a Carnelo-Cotto fight if both boxers sign a contract stating they will fight Golovkin if they win.

                        Not that contracts mean anything in this game.

                        Comment


                          #62
                          Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                          Tactical Genius wrote: Inc, would that be the the idiot Skip Bayliss by any chance?

                          Carnelo is not good enough to step into the rin g with a fully fledged seasoned middleweight like triple G. He has stamina issues and would be knocked out cold.
                          His best bet would be to take on Cotto who he has a better chance against then take a couple of easier fighters like Eubank or Saunders and allow triple G to age a couple of more years. This worked for Hatton when he beat Tzyu.

                          PacMan is really harming his legacy with his sore loser attitude and nonsense about a torn shoulder
                          This site lists upcoming fights and TV schedules; it is primarily focused on the US but I assume folks participating in this thread will know where to find the fights in their countries:
                          http://fightnights.com/upcoming-boxing-schedule

                          I have nothing invested in Pacquiao (i.e., he's not my favorite fighter) but in his defense he had requested an injection that would help with the pain, the drug testing company that Mayweather demanded be used was fine with the injection, but the Nevada State Boxing Commission refused the injection because the paperwork was submitted too late or something like that. This is the type of craziness that is part of a pattern among boxing officials, which always keeps the sport taking two steps back after 1/2 step forward. I'm not saying the injection would have made for a good fight, but the chance that a a good fight would happen would have increased with the injection.

                          GGG is a strong dude for sure, but he's not nearly as aggressive as Kirkland. Kirkland has a weaker chin (proven by regular early kockdowns and one early knockout) and Canelo did the business against Kirkland. I tend to agree that GGG would win, but I think Canelo would create the kind of fight that needs to happen. Canelo hasn't been kocked out and his only loss was a majority decision against Mayweather. But Canelo would be stepping up in weight, which would create a problem.

                          I think back to the days of Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, and Hitman Hearns. These guys were all fighting each other. We need to see something like this again and the only way that can happen in my mind is to see Canelo-GGG, Canelo-Cotto, and Cotto-GGG. Perhaps GGG steps up in weight class to fight Ward, but I'd rather see those other fights first.

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                            #63
                            Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                            Yes, TG, Skip Bayless. He and Steven A. Smith have a show on ESPN that I can only assume only gets ratings because it comes on after SportsCenter in the morning.

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                              #64
                              Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                              Harry, the middleweight class seems devoid of star names bar Triple G, so much so that Cotto can move up and win a title.

                              All the best fights and fighters seem to be at Welter/Super Welter which I think will harm Triple G's legacy. He's 33 years old and has not really beaten a big name in his career. Personally, I think Mayweather would beat him if he moved up but I wouldn't recommend it.

                              I have nothing invested in Pacquiao (i.e., he's not my favorite fighter) but in his defense he had requested an injection that would help with the pain, the drug testing company that Mayweather demanded be used was fine with the injection, but the Nevada State Boxing Commission refused the injection because the paperwork was submitted too late or something like that. This is the type of craziness that is part of a pattern among boxing officials, which always keeps the sport taking two steps back after 1/2 step forward. I'm not saying the injection would have made for a good fight, but the chance that a a good fight would happen would have increased with the injection.
                              Danielmak = Skip Bayliss. Actually even Skip has given up on this line. Let me address this bullshit:

                              Any medication taken before the fight had to be cleared by US Anti-Doping agency. Not some biased third party company that you are trying to imply. That is to make sure that whatever shows up in the drug testing is not on the list of the banned substances and if it is, there is a clear explanation.

                              The Nevada state commission are responsible for medication on fight day. What you need to ask you is:

                              1. Why did they wait for the last minute to request the injection.
                              2. Why did he fill out his forms to say he had no injuries the [B]DAY BEFORE THE FIGHT[B].
                              3. Why didn't he mention his injury after the fight instead of claiming he won.
                              4. I thought he didn't like needles, but he wanted an Injection?
                              5. USADA head Travis Tygart said Pacquiao's team had only asked about the legality of certain substances for use on an unspecified shoulder injury and had provided "no medical information, no MRIs, no documents"

                              The bottom line is that PacMan is no longer on drugs and is a shadow of the fighter he was 5 years ago.
                              He went from throwing 1000 punches a fight to 400 and lost so much strength that Mayweather was laughing off his best punches in the 4th.

                              The best fighters and commentators in boxing were all at ringside and not one picked up the shoulder injury, there was no mention of it by Roach in between rounds which is unnatural.

                              This is all bullshit, Mayweather completely outclassed PacMan who was ill prepared and was taking selfies with his entourage walking into the ring.
                              PacMan is a lying piece of shit and conned the millions who eityher came to the fight or paid $100 on PPV yet somehow Mayweather is the villan of the piece?

                              The press and media are pissed because PacMan fought so badly, they could not even have a chance to steal the fight. Nobody in boxing is taking this shoulder story seriously and Paulie Malinaggi is 100% correct and to be fair to him, he has been calling this for the last 6 years.

                              Comment


                                #65
                                Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                If Pacquiao is "a lying piece of shit" for whingeing about a supposed shoulder injury, what words have you got left for a person like Mayweather?

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                                  #66
                                  Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                  Are we talking as a human being or boxing Calx?

                                  Because you seem to be skating over alot of my points made to your earlier email.

                                  PacMan is a serial womaniser and has some pretty distasteful religious based views of his own.

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                    I doubt calx would answer so I'm moving on. Word is that Frotch is in talks to fight triple G. That looks a good fight on paper as long as Frotch doesn't turn up for a paycheck.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                      Tactical Genius wrote:
                                      I have nothing invested in Pacquiao (i.e., he's not my favorite fighter) but in his defense he had requested an injection that would help with the pain, the drug testing company that Mayweather demanded be used was fine with the injection, but the Nevada State Boxing Commission refused the injection because the paperwork was submitted too late or something like that. This is the type of craziness that is part of a pattern among boxing officials, which always keeps the sport taking two steps back after 1/2 step forward. I'm not saying the injection would have made for a good fight, but the chance that a a good fight would happen would have increased with the injection.
                                      Danielmak = Skip Bayliss. Actually even Skip has given up on this line.
                                      I don't know what Skip Bayliss said, since I rarely watch ESPN unless I am watching an actual game/match/fight. But my sense is that he is not a boxing expert. My source of information about the shot has been boxing commentators (The Fight Game on HBO and various on-line boxing sources).

                                      Tactical Genius wrote:

                                      The best fighters and commentators in boxing were all at ringside and not one picked up the shoulder injury, there was no mention of it by Roach in between rounds which is unnatural.

                                      This is all bullshit, Mayweather completely outclassed PacMan who was ill prepared and was taking selfies with his entourage walking into the ring.
                                      PacMan is a lying piece of shit and conned the millions who eityher came to the fight or paid $100 on PPV yet somehow Mayweather is the villan of the piece?
                                      I don't know if the last part is addressed to me, but I never identified Mayweather as a villain. My lone claim was that if Pacquiao had the shot, maybe he would have been more competitive (as I bolded in my quote above). Similarly, as I noted before (and also bolded above), I have nothing invested in Pacman (or Mayweather). I don't care if one wins or loses. Pacman has not been a very exciting fighter for a few years now and Mayweather's approach is interesting from the standpoint of the "sweet science" but not very exciting. I definitely prefer to watch fights where there is some knock-out power.

                                      And I would add that I really can't remember a time when a trainer has talked in the corner about an injury when cameras/mics were recording. Even if the fighter has a very bad cut, the only talk is about making sure the cut man is doing his job, but the trainer focuses on the tactics. Boxers have claimed after fights that they broke a hand early in the fight, that they injured a knee, pulled a hamstring, couldn't see out of an eye, etc. and I can't ever remember hearing a trainer talk about an injury during the fight itself. I say that admitting that the quantity of boxing that I watch has be uneven of late (in recent years I have tended to focus on HBO broadcasts and some Showtime fights but not usually watching fights on regional sports networks in the US or Spanish language broadcasts--where my Spanish is not developed enough to pick up on discussion of an injury so that would be moot). However, in the past, I watched as much boxing as I could on whatever sports network aired fights in the US. I think trainers are aware that the cameras are present and unless they need to throw in the towel, they aren't going to talk about an injury until after the fact. In this regard Roach was no different with Pacman's injury than any other corner wo/man. Moreover, this isn't very different than any other sport, where injuries are discussed after the fact, not before the match/game.

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                        Amir Khan defeated Chris Algieri last night in a fight with consistent action, but action that was clearly not leading to any kind of knockout. Although I can appreciate a victory based on judges' scores, I definitely prefer fights where there's a threat of a knock-out. In the end, this fight had Algieri moving straight ahead at all times trying to hunt down Khan (not a very exciting tactic) and Khan dancing around, landing some combinations, clutching, and maybe fighting inside here and there. On the whole, it was not very interesting.

                                        Khan is angling for a Mayweather fight. It's hard to see that happening. Some folks talk about Mayweather waiting to fight guys until they are out of their prime, but I don't see that as a regular pattern with him. Obviously he could have fought Pacquiao years ago when Pacman was a much better fighter, but in general Mayweather won belts in multiple divisions because he beat champions. Kahn-Mayweather would be interesting for fans of the stick and move, but I can't see that fight being very exciting. But I also don't see it happening.

                                        EDIT: I also just watched a rebroadcast of Broner-Molina Jr. Again, not a very thrilling fight, but I have to say that I'm impressed by Broner's quick hands and awkward fighting style. I know he's knocked some guys out, but it's hard to tell from this fight (perhaps his first since his first loss?) since he focused on jabbing Molina to death. There were some nice combinations following those jabs and Molina rarely got close enough to trouble Broner. The announcers noted that Broner fought nearly 300 times as an amateur, so one would think he knows who he is as a fighter.

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                          Cotto looked very good last night against Geale, who threw in the towel after getting hit with what seemed like a fairly weak right hand. Cotto's left hook is devastating. In a pre-fight interview with HBO's Jim Lampley, Cotto implied that a fight with Caneolo had not happened because Canelo's camp seemed to show a bit of disrespect relative to division of the money. It seems that some of that stuff has been ironed out and in the post-fight interview Cotto told Max Kellerman that he expects the next fight to be with Canelo after Cotto takes a break. GGG was in attendance and Max asked if that fight was going to happen. Cotto noted that he plans to fight Canelo and then if GGG is still around, he would be up for that next. As I posted upthread, I would like to see these three guys fight each other. Right now I can't think of another fight that would be as interesting as any of these two guys.

                                          EDIT: I watched The Fight Game last night on HBO. It looks like the Cotto-Canelo fight is on with an expectation that it will be a pay-per-view fight in the autumn. Max Kellerman and Jim Lampley discussed a similar point that I raised earlier in the thread about the division being on par with a time when Duran, Haggler, Hearns, and Leonard were fighting one another. He noted that the skills among this current crop are not as great but the punching power and commitment is far greater (i.e., there were too many fights when Hearns and Duran seemed unprepared or just looking to go through the motions and we don't see that with any of these three current fighters).

                                          Comment


                                            #71
                                            Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                            A very interesting article on problems with USADA's testing of boxers, and their cozy relationship with Floyd Mayweather:

                                            http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                              Just seen this updated, DanielMak, a few points.

                                              Regarding PACman
                                              My source of information about the shot has been boxing commentators (The Fight Game on HBO and various on-line boxing sources).
                                              Most commentators, especially ex boxers have called bull on this, I have found none who have sympathy with Manny. There seems to be two views:

                                              1. If your not fit enough to fight, you should have called it off and if you needed the jab, you and your corner are experienced enought to know and follow the proceedures to get approval.

                                              2. Fighters fight injured all the time, suck it up and take the L and move on.

                                              Like I said, the shoulder injury was a red herring and only brought up when he could not convice people that he should have had the decision.

                                              Every man and his dog watched the fight and not one person mentioned during the fight that Pacquio looked injured, these commentators are pretty experienced and would not miss a fighter fighting with a gammy shoulder as he would have had to make adjustments to his fighting style to comnpensate.

                                              Khan is angling for a Mayweather fight. It's hard to see that happening. Some folks talk about Mayweather waiting to fight guys until they are out of their prime, but I don't see that as a regular pattern with him. Obviously he could have fought Pacquiao years ago when Pacman was a much better fighter
                                              Although a skilful fighter, Khan is not on Mayweathers level and would be picked off and knocked out in the latter rounds. He won't land anything and has a glass chin. The stuff about Mayweather ducking fighters or not fighting them at their peak is a load of nonsense to be honest.
                                              Only Paul Williams can legitimately moan about not fighting Mayweather. All the others didn't want to gith Mayweather when they were at their peak because he was younger then them and was at a different weight class (De La Hoya, Moseley) or they lost when they were in the frame to fight him (PacMan, Berto etc) or just wern't as good as people thought they were (Lara, Casamayor, Bradley). Mayweather beat all the best in his class and era with considerable ease anbd him being an arrogant ar$e should not blind people of the fact that he is the smartest boxer (in the ring) of all time and one of the best to have graced the ring.

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                                Cotto won easily against Geale because he drained him down to 157lb and Geale struggles to get down to 160.

                                                It's interesting that two fighters who people dismissed when they lost to Mayweather (Cotto was considered past it and Canello to inexperienced) are going to fight in a PPV blockbuster for the Lineal Middleweight title. go figure.

                                                Comment


                                                  #74
                                                  Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                                  In unrelated news, weird to see Andrew Selby turn pro less than a year upfront of the Olympics when he has only recently been ranked No. 1 flyweight in the world and is still ranked No. 2.

                                                  Obviously his brother's recent pro success and world title must be a factor but you'd think after staying in the AIBA system for a further three years following 2012 he'd wait and see if he can turn pro off the back of a gold medal.

                                                  .

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    Pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar: Boxing

                                                    Harry Truscott wrote: In unrelated news, weird to see Andrew Selby turn pro less than a year upfront of the Olympics when he has only recently been ranked No. 1 flyweight in the world and is still ranked No. 2.

                                                    Obviously his brother's recent pro success and world title must be a factor but you'd think after staying in the AIBA system for a further three years following 2012 he'd wait and see if he can turn pro off the back of a gold medal.

                                                    .
                                                    That's really strange Harry. Common sense would be to compete at the Olympics and use that as a springboard to a professional career which would make him more money in his first dozen or so professiional fights.See Amir Khan and Audley Harrisson getting millions to knock over bums in their first dozen or so fights.

                                                    The must be something political at play, maybe he fell out with the ABA as whatever financial package he is being offer now would be on offer in 12 months time (if not more).

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