Berlin, then

[Toby Gymshorts]

Berlin, then

ursus arctos wrote: Earlier thread, with four or five others embedded.

I stand with TG on Alexanderplatz. I'd take it any day over the corporate glitz of Potsdamer Platz.

I wonder how Etienne got on at that function?

EDIT: If you think Alexanderplatz is soulless, go there on a Friday night. It's brilliant.

[EIM]

Berlin, then

What a fucking place. I resent not being there any more. It's got everything. I'm in love.

[EIM]

Berlin, then

Things what I did in Berlin:

1. Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe. Imposing, brutal. Spoiled slightly by the dickheads treating it like an adventure playground or maze. But the dark claustrophobia when standing in the middle is incredibly creepy.

2. Palace of Tears. A memorial to the border crossing between East and West.

3. 1. FC Union v Stuttgart. A walk through a forest to see a team who call themselves Onion play. Brilliant. The football was exactly my style - lots of hoofing and crossing and not much else. Stuttgart, who were second, scored early on, before I could finish my first beer and wurst. Onion laboured throughout the first half, not doing much at all, but equalised in the second half and probably should have gone on to win it. No player stood out, they were all shite. Though the Onion number 37, Toni Leistner, was bulky, and bald, and defended like a bulky bald defender should do. Big fan of his work.

4. Berlin-Hohenschönhausen Memorial. A museum and memorial in the old Stasi prison. Incredibly grim. Partly staffed by former inmates. I'm not sure how they face going to work every day.

5. Topography of Terror. Built on the site of the old SS and Gestapo hq. Spent almost three hours in there reading about the crimes committed by the secret police and SS. It was fascinating, and absorbing, and I desperately wanted it to end after about 45 minutes. Walked out feeling like I'd been punched in the stomach.

6. Tempelhof Airport. A tour round Hitler's mad and massive fascist airport that was later used as a US airbase. Albert Speer, while probably a massive dickhead, knew how to make an airport. Stunning.

7. Sachsenhausen concentration camp. I don't really know what to make of it all. Leaving at 5pm, when it was dark, was incredibly eerie. Frightening even. The little things like how they made the inmates test boots, to the horrifying like the medical experiments, to the hooded crows everywhere on the site. Just... I dunno. I'm glad I did it, but I'd never want to go to another site.

8. Berlin zoo. It stinks, and the animals need more room. Still, they did funny stuff, so better value than London zoo in terms of funny animal to the pound.

9. The Memorial to German Resistance. Located in a gorgeous building, where Von Stauffenberg and his besties were executed after narrowly failing to assassinate Hitler. It does rather make the point that there wasn't much resistance at all to the Nazi Germany, and that the vast majority of people just - for whatever reason - stood by and watched it happen. Which made me question how I'd react in a similar situation. Favourite bit was Johann Georg Elser, a carpenter who didn't like Hitler, didn't fancy war, and decided to blow him up. Top man.

10. Soviet War Memorial. The one in Treptower Park. Absolutely mahoosive. Done in the typically understated way of the Soviet Union. It's like that level of Goldeneye in the statue graveyard. There's a massive Soviet soldier holding a baby, smashing a swastika with his sword. Fucking too right.

It's also a great city to walk around. To eat in. And to drink in, of course. The place is dripping in history, but most impressive of all is how they deal with that past. What a city. I could live there, you know.

[ursus arctos]

Berlin, then

Onion won again today and are only one point off the promotion places.

Seats on the bandwagon are still available.

[hobbes]

Berlin, then

What a fucking place. I resent not being there any more. It's got everything. I'm in love.

I must admit I was quite overawed when I went there. It certainly did Take My Breath Away.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Berlin, then

Very good hobbes, I see what you did there.

That is one hell of a 20th century trauma sightseeing agenda that EIM got through. Impressive mental stamina. Must confess that when I go to Berlin to visit friends there, apart from nostalgic trips to old haunts from when I lived there for six months in my gap year in 1982, I tend to do less emotionally challenging stuff - the parks, the lakes in Grunewald (though I note that one thing EIM missed in his apparent attempt to get a Berlin area man's inhumanity to man full house was the Wannsee Conference Museum down in that neck of the woods), Schloss Charlottenburg, the art galleries, the Reichstag cupola, the Technikmuseum, the streets of Kreuzberg.....

[EIM]

Berlin, then

Kreuzberg does mad good kebabs.

[EIM]

Berlin, then

Jesus Christ is that true? That's unbelievable.

Mind, the paint clearly doesn't work. I saw plenty of graffiti. Some bellend had written LOVE on one stone. Fuck off, hippy.

[ursus arctos]

Berlin, then

It's true.

A Holocaust memorial in Berlin to Europe's 6 million murdered Jews was at the centre of huge embarrassment last night after it emerged that one of its German construction firms had supplied Zyklon B used in Nazi gas chambers.

The memorial's board of trustees ordered an abrupt halt to the project following revelations that the German company Degussa was connected with the supply of gas used in Nazi concentration camps. The firm had been awarded a contract to cover the memorial's 2,700 concrete pillars in a graffiti-proof coating.

They were ultimately kept on the project.

Nazi-era crimes by a German chemical company that once conspired to exterminate millions of Jews were revisited and to some extent forgiven Thursday when the firm was kept on as a subcontractor for a sprawling Holocaust memorial.

The decision by the Foundation for the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe to allow Degussa to supply anti-graffiti coating to the project came after days of national debate over how to respect the dead while not inhibiting Germany from moving beyond past atrocities.

We were living in Frankfurt when this all happened, and I did some work for a Degussa affiliate. It was less than comfortable, though as Reginald notes, virtually every large firm that was active in the 30s had some Nazi connections.

[MsD]

Berlin, then

I love the German Film Museum in the Sony Centre. That might not be the exact title and it can take some finding, but it has wonderful exhibits.

[EIM]

Berlin, then

Just down the road from Potsdammer Platz, on the way to the Memorial to German Resistance. Didn't go in it, but walked past it a million times looking for other stuff.

[Alderman Barnes]

Berlin, then

Because I live in Berlin, I hardly ever get around to visiting the places that tourists go to. Recently, though, I've been translating some of the city's tourist information website, and it's made me want to get out and see things more often.

Here's the website, in case you're interested. There really are shitloads of things to do here that I've never even known about.

[Levin]

Berlin, then

I've never really been able to express my feelings for Berlin in a precise enough way. I was shocked by how *spread out and large* Berlin is. I know it's a result of the entire place being rebuilt in the past 70 years but 10 lane highways running through the centre of a city is just odd to my Londoner eyes. That and I'm unconvinced that a city is using it's space to best advantage if they can afford to give so much land to their under (and over) ground stations.

Edit: Did you get to go to the DDR museum EIM?

[EIM]

Berlin, then

It was on the list, but by the time I got round to it it was packed full of bastards so I went for some Vietnamese food instead.

[rick derris]

Berlin, then

i realied 3 years ago Berlin was awesome and have been about 15 times since, hardly done any of the places on EIMs busy itinerary mind

have seen Hertha, dynamo, te BE, viktoria and croatia berlin play mind. plus the ground just north of the HBf station. never done union, they play near where i always stay as well Warschauer Straße, just south of karl mark allee

Im going again in a few weeks, 20-22nd dec. i assume there wont be any games on

[Toby Gymshorts]

Berlin, then

Berlin is indeed fucking mint and I harbour vague, never-to-be-realised ambitions to live there. I know the German word for "insurance" but I'm not sure that's enough to get me going in a career, really.

My favourite place in the world.*

*With the disclaimer that there's fucking loads of it I've not seen, so up to press, yes, my favourite.

[EIM]

Berlin, then

Thing is, if there's loads you haven't seen, it can only get better, surely? I walked 12 miles on my first day all over. Felt like 400 yards.

[Wouter D]

Berlin, then

Best city in the world.

[Ginger Yellow]

Went for the first time since my childhood earlier this month for a weekend after a conference. My sightseeing list ended up being a lot less traumatic than EIM's, and shorter, thanks to Easyjet losing my luggage. Apart from the Reichstag, it was all old museums. Well, technically the New Museum. And the Pergamon. Also took a trip out to the Stone brewery for a meal and tour. All great stuff, even if the Pergamon is only half open.

If you're near Friedrichstrasse, I highly recommend eating at Zenkichi. Great food, a very cosy vibe, and way, way cheaper than it would be in London.

[Toby Gymshorts]

I'm going again in January. Already looking longingly at big coat.

[San Bernardhinault]

Stone Brewing in Berlin? How odd.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Flying tomorrow, swiftly onto Dresden from the airport, for two nights but in Berlin itself for two nights Monday / Tuesday - doing the Reichstag yet again, going to two gigs and generally having a wander, before moving on again on Wednesday. Can't wait.

[Toby Gymshorts]

I'm trying to work out whether a trip to Marienpark (a bit of a trek, really, for a lazy git like me) is worth it for the Stone Brewing tour.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Leaving tomorrow. Already a bit sad.