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    The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

    Seems from outside that Wimbledon are cutting and running and planning on leaving Kingstonian as tenants in a ground that's now unsuitable for them with a potentially unfriendly landlord.

    Kingstonian have announced that they plan to move away from Kingsmeadow.

    It kind of feels that K's and Chelsea Ladies sharing a reduced capacity Kingsmeadow could be a workable long-term solution (not to mention a massive plus to have a WSL team playing in Greater London).

    But it sounds like that's not going to happen.

    #2
    The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

    I know this won't be a popular sentiment with most, but I'll be sad to see the end of greyhound racing at Wimbledon, and it will be the last speedway venue (even if it's not been used in years) in London gone as well. A nail in the coffin of both sports.

    I love going to football, but we're at risk of developing a sporting monoculture in this country.

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      #3
      The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

      I totally agree with you Whittaker.

      Wimbledon is indeed the last of its kind in London. White City, Walthamstow, Custom House and Wembley all used to host greyhound racing, speedway and stock car racing. To lose the last speedway and stocks / banger racing track in London is very sad, especially with the news that Arena Essex may soon disappear as well.

      The thing is, different people thrive on different sports. Not everyone gets excited at football and for some the thrill of racing is what keeps them going. The banger racing I feel particularly strongly about as many of the people who race in it have probably been kept away from criminal activity because of it. Smashing cars up round a track may not be to everybody's cup of tea, but it's pure adrenalin for some.

      Destroying other sports for further your own really isn't on and I wouldn't shed a tear if AFC were to go out of business.

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        #4
        The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

        A few points I'd like to make:

        I'm sure Wimbledon will happily sell the ground to Kingstonian if they are able to pay for it, that would be the ideal solution.

        Why is Kingsmeadow now unsuitable for Kingstonian Bizarre Low Triangle?

        Whittiker and Paul S, are you regular visitors to Wimbledon dog track then? I have a hunch that you probably aren't. It's dying a death and that whole area of Wimbledon needs redeveloping.

        Also, what are your views on what happens to retired greyhounds?

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          #5
          The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

          Paul S still a trolling twat in 2015 then? Good to know there are some constants in the world.

          .

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            #6
            The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

            FVW, yes I have been to Wimbledon to watch both dogs and bangers and I know what a state it's got into. It's the sort of place where you wipe you shoes on the way out and have to dodge pot holes in the car park. The owners of the stadium have really let it go to rack and ruin which is very sad indeed. And no, I don't go regularly as I live in Essex and my local track is Romford.

            As for the crowds, they still get over a thousand for greyhound meetings and the man who saved the Irish greyhound industry - Paschal Taggert - has proposed a new greyhound stadium there. Sadly this does not include bangers or speedway.

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              #7
              The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

              Extremely upsetting news to start the year, with the future of the club being put at risk by this proposed deal between a fans' club and an oligarch club.

              Difficult to know exactly what our board's view is from the statement, but reading between the lines it seems they think we can't afford to pay the rent our ground long term, now it's been 'improved' into a Football League ground.

              If we can't afford to buy Kingsmeadow - bearing in mind that we, as in the club, got nothing for it - then I don't see how we can afford to build a new one either. I'd imagine we end up kicked out of our ground and town by this AFC Wimbledon-Chelsea deal, and die a slow lingering death sharing with someone like Corinthian Casuals or Met Police.

              I honestly wish we'd just gone bust when we had all our money troubles. The lease on the ground would have reverted to the Council and the phoenix club could have just started over in Kingsmeadow like Hornchurch, Telford and now Hereford.

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                #8
                The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                I am slightly at a loss to see why there is such doom-mongering straight off the bat.

                Firstly, as I understand it, Kingstonian have got a 25 year sub-lease with a fixed rent. Are Chelsea able to change the terms of that sub-lease? Also, Wimbledon gave Kingstonian much better terms for 11 years than other would have.

                What are Wimbledon supposed to do when the move back to Merton - which has always been their target - is possible? For a start, you would have thought that their revenue has suffered somewhat from being out of Merton.

                Yes, no-one likes the idea of being under Chelsea's auspices but they will want to have the stadium used every Saturday and it's better for them to keep a sitting tenant in there to do this. Obviously, the question of whether they can change the terms of the sub-lease makes a lot of difference here.

                As far as statements from Kingstonian go, this

                The Kingstonian co-chairman Malcolm Winwright added: “We are all aware that there are developments and we are talking to AFC Wimbledon on a regular basis.

                “We have to wait and see what happens – there is a lot of conjecture going around and it isn’t very helpful. We are comfortable about everything that’s happening at the moment.”
                seems fairly positive.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                  Favourite Worst Nightmare wrote:

                  Whittiker and Paul S, are you regular visitors to Wimbledon dog track then? I have a hunch that you probably aren't. It's dying a death and that whole area of Wimbledon needs redeveloping.

                  Also, what are your views on what happens to retired greyhounds?
                  I'm not a regular visitor as my local track is Poole, but I've been to Wimbledon a few times. It is indeed a wreck, but busy- the ownership saga there hasn't helped.

                  As for the treatment of retired greyhounds, it's controversial (which is why I suggested that my view on it wouldn't be the most popular), and here probably isn't the place for a long discussion on it. Suffice to say, the welfare angle still hasn't been resolved.

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                    #10
                    The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                    Bored, read our statement from this morning on our club website. We're on our way out.

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                      #11
                      The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                      Paul S wrote:

                      As for the crowds, they still get over a thousand for greyhound meetings
                      No they don't. A couple of hundred would be more accurate, mainly people on stag do's or some other kind of piss up.

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                        #12
                        The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                        Seven Saxon Kings wrote: Bored, read our statement from this morning on our club website. We're on our way out.
                        For the benefit of those who haven't checked the statement on the Kingstonian club websie:

                        "Our continuous dialogue with the AFC Wimbledon Trust has reached a point where, because of their culture and previous expereiences, they fully understand our position and have expressed their desire to give us (as always) as much moral, practical and financial assistance as possible."

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                          #13
                          The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                          And what exactly will that mean in reality? Whatever it is I doubt it will magically compensate for our ground being sold to an oligarch.

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                            #14
                            The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                            I think the statement is indicative of the K's ownership not wanting to upset the owner of the ground. I don't think that Wimbledon have done much wrong, but even when decisions are taken with good intentions and goodwill, then people can still get thoroughly screwed over, and sadly Kingstonian have.

                            Paul obviously is a troll, and the line about Wimbledon going to the wall obviously was trolling, but I can't see anything controversial in the rest of his post. It's a national scandal that all sorts of sports are being priced/developed out of being able to exist in London (clearly lots of football clubs and playing fields have also fallen victim to this) and it would be hideous if it did become a sporting monoculture.

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                              #15
                              The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                              Yes, sorry, agreed that that statement certainly is a lot more pessimistic and settled on moving. Is this because they know what the deal would be under Chelsea?

                              I do have a lot of sympathy as we have been told that we have to move from Twerton Park as it is too big and too expensive to maintain. The difference is, of course, that we own the ground but we still are not accepting the board's view without question. We have keep the alternatives alive as much as possible.

                              My main point, however, is what was really expected of AFC Wimbledon? They seem to have treated Kingstonian with nothing but respect and given them as much support and help as it is possible for another club - especially of their size - could. By any estimations, Wimbledon could end up doubling their attendances by moving back to Merton. Any football supporter should back them moving back to Merton.

                              If Chelsea treat Kingstonian badly - increasing the rent etc - then Chelsea are to be challenged. It appears that Wimbledon are going to do as much as possible to ensure that whoever takes over treats Kingstonian properly but there is only so much they can do. The situation with Kingsmeadow has been a cock-up almost from day one and Wimbledon have been one of the main enablers that have aided the club in that time. Yes, SSK, you may be right in that going bust and having a Hereford situation with Kingsmeadow. However, would you really have thought that at the time?

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                                #16
                                The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                Seven Saxon Kings wrote: And what exactly will that mean in reality? Whatever it is I doubt it will magically compensate for our ground being sold to an oligarch.
                                Why don't Kingstonian buy the ground then? And if the answer is "because we can't afford it" then why is that Wimbledon's (or anyone elses) fault?

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                                  #17
                                  The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                  Etienne wrote: It's a national scandal that all sorts of sports are being priced/developed out of being able to exist in London (clearly lots of football clubs and playing fields have also fallen victim to this) and it would be hideous if it did become a sporting monoculture.
                                  Obviously true but so much larger than anything to with Kingstonian/Wimbledon and were the stadium move not to happen and Wimbledon stay at Kingsmeadow not much would change about a sporting monoculture (if there indeed is). If the finger is to be pointed at anyone - in the sporting field - you can look at the likes of Not-Not rugby clubs, WASPs etc.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                    Etienne wrote: I think the statement is indicative of the K's ownership not wanting to upset the owner of the ground. I don't think that Wimbledon have done much wrong, but even when decisions are taken with good intentions and goodwill, then people can still get thoroughly screwed over, and sadly Kingstonian have.

                                    Paul obviously is a troll, and the line about Wimbledon going to the wall obviously was trolling, but I can't see anything controversial in the rest of his post. It's a national scandal that all sorts of sports are being priced/developed out of being able to exist in London (clearly lots of football clubs and playing fields have also fallen victim to this) and it would be hideous if it did become a sporting monoculture.
                                    Clearly, I was only commenting on his obvious trolling line. Any wider point he is trying to make is enormously devalued by that.

                                    There is obviously a huge problem in football's dominance over all other sports in London and the development of all open space in the capital squeezing out other sport in general. The problem is though, as you and Bored allude to, what are Wimbledon meant to do?

                                    I've got many angles on this as I have occasionally watched both Wimbledon and Kingstonian for around twenty years, recently becoming a season ticket holder for the former, as well as seeing as much non-league football in the region as possible.

                                    I also watch a huge range of live sports in and around London and I'm a massive speedway fan - if Wimbledon Dons still raced at Plough Lane I would have a season ticket there too. That has no chance of ever happening though, they were screwed over by the people running the greyhound stadium last time to allow the dogs and stock cars to carve up use between them. Any future development of the site will have some residential use which totally rules out speedway on noise grounds. The sport is lost to the site, absolutely.

                                    I've discussed the issue with Wimbledon fans in recent years and specifically in the few days since the Chelsea story broke but neither I nor they know what the club should do for the best? Not seek to go back to Merton and ignore the absolute prime purpose of the reformed club and right the wrong that eventually killed off WFC? Not seek to take over the only likely site in the area for sporting use? Not look to protect Kingstonian as best they can as they have for over a decade?

                                    If someone's got a solution to what is a genuinely horrible dilemma I would love to hear it, I get the sense that the board and other members of The Dons Trust would too.

                                    .

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                                      #19
                                      The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                      Seven Saxon Kings wrote: And what exactly will that mean in reality? Whatever it is I doubt it will magically compensate for our ground being sold to an oligarch.
                                      Out of interest, do you think there is any mileage in Kingstonian playing in a revamped version of the Kingsmeadow Athletics Stadium converted to a ground more suitable and cost-effective for them?

                                      .

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                                        #20
                                        The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                        For some reason, I have an idea that the perfect solution would be London Welsh and Kingstonian ground sharing but I can't work out how and it would probably never happen.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                          Favourite Worst Nightmare wrote:
                                          Originally posted by Seven Saxon Kings
                                          And what exactly will that mean in reality? Whatever it is I doubt it will magically compensate for our ground being sold to an oligarch.
                                          Why don't Kingstonian buy the ground then? And if the answer is "because we can't afford it" then why is that Wimbledon's (or anyone elses) fault?
                                          Because they bought the ground at an inflated price, developed it into a league ground and expect an ROI?

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                            Wimbledon have a moral duty to restore Kingstonian to a suitable home. If they don't, they're shitting on their few remaining principles

                                            "Wider interests of football" you're having a laugh.

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                                              #23
                                              The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                              I think the statement is indicative of the K's ownership not wanting to upset the owner of the ground.
                                              This.

                                              Why don't Kingstonian buy the ground then? And if the answer is "because we can't afford it" then why is that Wimbledon's (or anyone elses) fault?
                                              This is very typical of the common AFC narrative of blaming our fanbase, of 300 people, for not being able to raise the money the millions of pounds that would be needed. Many AFC fans just don't realise what the reality is like for a small club - even to buy the ground themselves, with thousands of fans and a truckload of sponsors and media love, the only person who'd give them a mortgage to buy the ground was Khosla himself. And even if we had somehow raised the money, well, we can't outbid a Russian oligarch can we? It's not AFC's fault, but then they didn't have to buy the ground from an asset stripper in the first place.

                                              I've discussed the issue with Wimbledon fans in recent years and specifically in the few days since the Chelsea story broke but neither I nor they know what the club should do for the best? Not seek to go back to Merton and ignore the absolute prime purpose of the reformed club and right the wrong that eventually killed off WFC? Not seek to take over the only likely site in the area for sporting use? Not look to protect Kingstonian as best they can as they have for over a decade?
                                              Not sell the ground without making sure the buyer does something to look after the tenant. Which to be fair maybe they have, because understandably all the details aren't out, but it seems unlikely.

                                              Out of interest, do you think there is any mileage in Kingstonian playing in a revamped version of the Kingsmeadow Athletics Stadium converted to a ground more suitable and cost-effective for them?
                                              Well it wouldn't be more suitable for a start, because it has a running track round it and is therefore shit. Kingsmeadow is perfectly suitable, or at least it was until our home terrace was bulldozed for an all-seat stand. There's this narrative that it's 'too big' and 'unsuitable' but any football ground feels empty with only 300 people in it. It's no different to most step 2 and 3 grounds that can potentially hold a few thousand but rarely hold more than a few hundred.

                                              Anyway, that aside, the biggest barrier is probably that it's still used pretty seriously for athletics - by a successful British League club and a lot of elite athletes (including the likes of David Weir and back in the day Sonia O'Sullivan). This creates conflicts of usage and means the pitch would be dreadful from regularly having heavy metal objects thrown on it. In Enfield Town though, with how they've got little terraces behind each goal inside the track, we would at least have a template for making the best of the situation though.

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                                                #24
                                                The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                                By the way there will be a massive media blackout on this story on Monday night.

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                                                  #25
                                                  The Wimbledon/Kingsmeadow shambles

                                                  What is your best suggestion to resolve this predicament then SSK?

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