The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Sure, I get that, but Canadians seem to know the difference between "beloved Canadian star/big fish in a small pond" and "international superstar/big fish in a big pond" Don't they?

Is this really the first time Canada has dealt with one of these "but he seemed like such a good guy!" situations?

The NFL, for example, seems to do one or two every year.

[ursus arctos]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Reed, literally within minutes of the CBC decision being announced on Sunday afternoon, numerous members of the Toronto media and arts community (including a sometime denizen of this board) were tweeting that they had heard stories/rumours about Ghomeshi for "years". Those stories/rumours do not appear to have been as detailed or appalling as some of the accounts that have since emerged, but it is pretty clear that there were more than a few "red flags" raised that any responsible organisation would have taken action over.

I think that it is difficult for Americans to appreciate what it takes to be "big" in Canada. The population of the entire country is smaller than that of California, and the media and cultural community is seriously concentrated in Toronto in a way that just doesn't apply in the US context. There's also a sense in which Canadians automatically embrace their home grown "stars" simply because they are home grown, and not the product of the massive and unceasing cultural influence campaign being conducted from south of the 49th parallel.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Bored of Education wrote:

I've been diagnosed in the past with generalized anxiety disorder. Never hit anyone. Never assaulted anyone.

Good, you are now our poster boy. Interesting to see that you say "in the past". Do you just mean that your diagnosis was in the past or that the GAD was.

Bit of both. I may technically still have it but am managing it or maybe it's "cured." I don't know, but I'm done with shrinks. (for now, at least). It's kind of a vague diagnosis.

[MsD]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

I think this guy needs to be kept well clear of the Barenaked Ladies until we know what's what.

[Bored Of Education]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

There seem to be a lot of parallels with the Jimmy Saville case here.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

ursus arctos wrote: Reed, literally within minutes of the CBC decision being announced on Sunday afternoon, numerous members of the Toronto media and arts community (including a sometime denizen of this board) were tweeting that they had heard stories/rumours about Ghomeshi for "years". Those stories/rumours do not appear to have been as detailed or appalling as some of the accounts that have since emerged, but it is pretty clear that there were more than a few "red flags" raised that any responsible organisation would have taken action over.

I think that it is difficult for Americans to appreciate what it takes to be "big" in Canada. The population of the entire country is smaller than that of California, and the media and cultural community is seriously concentrated in Toronto in a way that just doesn't apply in the US context. There's also a sense in which Canadians automatically embrace their home grown "stars" simply because they are home grown, and not the product of the massive and unceasing cultural influence campaign being conducted from south of the 49th parallel.

Then I guess we'd need to know exactly what CBC management were told and when, to understand if they should have acted sooner. "There were rumors" is too vague, especially if he was able to obscure the truth with talk of consensual rough-stuff.

I understand the embrace of home grown stars and so forth. But there's a difference between being fond of somebody local and actually believing that the sun shines out their ass.

What percent of Canadians listen to the talkshows on CBC regularly? I was under the impression that, like NPR, it was mostly a thing for urban educated people, and despised by the sort of people that vote for Rob Ford. But maybe it's more popular than that.

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

ursus arctos wrote: The population of the entire country is smaller than that of California, and the media and cultural community is seriously concentrated in Toronto in a way that just doesn't apply in the US context.

He's right. Our whole universe is in a cold, dense state.

[caja-dglh]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

I am somewhat puzzled by the circumstances where a therapist would consider it reasonable for a person to purchase a look-alike teddy bear from their childhood to help a patient. Obviously the circumstances of learning about Big Ears Teddy color this, but wouldn't you typically expect that invoking childhood security blankets as an adult is very... weird?

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Reed John wrote: What percent of Canadians listen to the talkshows on CBC regularly? I was under the impression that, like NPR, it was mostly a thing for urban educated people, and despised by the sort of people that vote for Rob Ford. But maybe it's more popular than that.

Metro Morning on CBC Radio has been Toronto's number 1 radio show for, literally, decades. And we have plenty to choose from. If you get into any cab on any day, dude will be tuned to CBC radio. Without exception.

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

caja-dglh wrote: ...but wouldn't you typically expect that invoking childhood security blankets as an adult is very... weird?

.....yes....very.

[ursus arctos]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

If a number of Torontonians who are primarily known as hockey bloggers "knew", than more than a few people at the CBC have to have known.

And then there is this atrocity from last night's Star story

A CBC employee in her late 20s alleges that in 2007 Ghomeshi was sitting with her and other producers at a story meeting for his radio show Q . After their colleagues stood up and left, she alleges Ghomeshi leaned in close to her and quietly said “I want to hate f--- you”.

Later, as the two were walking in to the Q studio, she alleges he laughed to her and quietly said,
“Wasn’t that funny when I told you I wanted to grudge f--- you?”

Three years later, she alleges that on his way out of the Q studio, Ghomeshi approached her from behind and cupped her buttocks.

The woman later complained about Ghomeshi to her union representative at the CBC, who told her he reported her complaints to a CBC manager and to the executive producer of Q . She did not file a formal grievance.

She says she was called to a meeting with Q ’s executive producer to discuss her complaints, whom she says asked her “what (she) could do to make this a less toxic work environment?”

To her knowledge, Ghomeshi was never reprimanded for the incidents.

Bored, I agree that there are some parallels with Saville, though we haven't yet heard of the type of widespread acceptance of this kind of behaviour at the CBC than we almost immediately heard of at the BBC (and I would be surprised if we did).

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Ghomeshi's dad died a few weeks back. Two weeks ago, he penned a touching eulogy that was widely read. So when he took his 'leave of absence for personal reasons' last Friday, everyone assumed it was related. But when the CBC fired him on Sunday, Mrs WOM said "Oh fuck, it's something really big."

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

WOM wrote:

What percent of Canadians listen to the talkshows on CBC regularly? I was under the impression that, like NPR, it was mostly a thing for urban educated people, and despised by the sort of people that vote for Rob Ford. But maybe it's more popular than that.

Metro Morning on CBC Radio has been Toronto's number 1 radio show for, literally, decades. And we have plenty to choose from. If you get into any cab on any day, dude will be tuned to CBC radio. Without exception.

That is a bit mind-boggling. I'd like to think that's fantastic because it means the country is all working from the same trusted news source, like the U.S. did in the supposed good old days of Cronkite, etc.

But the continued popularity of the Fords and the emergence of Sun TV, your own version of Faux, suggests it doesn't work as well as one might hope.

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Sun TV is a money-losing failure of epic proportions. Nobody watches it. Not even Sun readers or Ford voters.

The Fords have tapped into a rich vein of suburban disenfranchisement. Since amalgamation, Toronto is either 'downtown subway' or 'out there...somewhere'. It a genuine disconnect, and the Fords have capitalized on it.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

ursus arctos wrote: If a number of Torontonians who are primarily known as hockey bloggers "knew", than more than a few people at the CBC have to have known.

And then there is this atrocity from last night's Star story

A CBC employee in her late 20s alleges that in 2007 Ghomeshi was sitting with her and other producers at a story meeting for his radio show Q . After their colleagues stood up and left, she alleges Ghomeshi leaned in close to her and quietly said “I want to hate f--- you”.

Later, as the two were walking in to the Q studio, she alleges he laughed to her and quietly said,
“Wasn’t that funny when I told you I wanted to grudge f--- you?”

Three years later, she alleges that on his way out of the Q studio, Ghomeshi approached her from behind and cupped her buttocks.

The woman later complained about Ghomeshi to her union representative at the CBC, who told her he reported her complaints to a CBC manager and to the executive producer of Q . She did not file a formal grievance.

She says she was called to a meeting with Q ’s executive producer to discuss her complaints, whom she says asked her “what (she) could do to make this a less toxic work environment?”

To her knowledge, Ghomeshi was never reprimanded for the incidents.

Bored, I agree that there are some parallels with Saville, though we haven't yet heard of the type of widespread acceptance of this kind of behaviour at the CBC than we almost immediately heard of at the BBC (and I would be surprised if we did).

I see.

Well, that's pretty damning if it can be verified. It's a shame that she didn't file something formal.

While it may be hard to verify individual accounts, if a bunch of different women come forward with similar stories and there's no evidence that they're colluding, then I believe there's a strong "where there's smoke there's fire" argument to be made. Maybe not enough for criminal prosecution, but enough for him to get fired and enough for the public to know he's a major creep.

A big step in fighting this kind of thing is making it easier for victims to document their complaints to prove later that they told management. That will make it much harder for management to get away with not doing anything about it. It's frustrating that so many of these stories feature recollections of meetings like that that didn't lead to any concrete action (not to mention victim-blaming).

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

WOM wrote: Sun TV is a money-losing failure of epic proportions. Nobody watches it. Not even Sun readers or Ford voters.

The Fords have tapped into a rich vein of suburban disenfranchisement. Since amalgamation, Toronto is either 'downtown subway' or 'out there...somewhere'. It a genuine disconnect, and the Fords have capitalized on it.

That's good to hear.

Also, the Fords seem to tap into the classic "he's an authentic regular guy, like us!" bullshit. That ruse seems to work in every generation, almost everywhere.

[ursus arctos]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

the country is all working from the same trusted news source, like the U.S. did in the supposed good old days of Cronkite, etc.

I know that you are too young to remember this, but that world did actually exist.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

I sort of remember that. Certainly TV news, such as it was, was far better and more reliable in those days.

But newspapers were both more plentiful and more local. A horribly racist editorial could appear in a paper in Virginia (or wherever)without anyone outside of Virginia really noticing.

One of the things I picked out of Charlie Rose's review of his many interviews with Ben Bradley (who died the other day, in case anyone missed that) is that, in the days leading up to Watergate, The Washington Post wasn't really a national/international brand like it is now.

And people had biases and prejudices and large swaths of the populace were subject to epistemic closure then just as they are now.

The difference is, I think, that if people were prejudiced and ignorant back then, it was because they were getting all of their information from mostly local and sometimes even informal sources - the guy down the street, preachers and politicians without much real education themselves, the aforementioned local paper, etc, and insofar as there was money behind the campaigns to keep the people ignorant and compliant, it was mostly coming from local or regional business interests.

Now, that same benighted, prejudiced, bullshit comes in a shiny package on TV or the internet with lots of fancy graphics. The money comes from nationally and internationally connected networks of business interests. But it's still the exact same old backwards no-nothing jingoistic horseshit as it was 50 years ago, appealing to the worst instincts of people in the same way as that sort of thing has since the dawn of man.

I can't tell if things are getting better or worse right now. On the one hand, lots of people are living in their own epistemic bubble and believe flagrant lies because all of their information sources confirm them.

On the other hand, in some ways I think it was worse in the late 90s and early 2000s, because back then, cable TV - even Fox, to some extent - still had some credibility. Respectable, smart people actually watched TV for information and took it seriously. We were getting fed a load of manure but we, collectively, had not fully grasped yet how bad it had become or how far from the old days of Cronkite et al when "I saw it on the news" meant something.

So, at least now, even if everyone is living in their own bubble, there appears to be more recognition that that's happening.

Whatever their ratings say, I've noticed among my friends and family that even people who used to watch a lot of Fox or MSNBC or CNN, don't any more and everyone I know with a shred of intellectual curiosity recognizes how bad it's become. And I'm pretty sure that the younger generations have completely given up on TV news.

[ursus arctos]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

I think that's fair, but that what it misses is that the bells and whistles tend to give people more confidence in the validity of the bullshit than what they got from the guy in the barber shop, with the corollary that it is therefore more difficult to disabuse them of their certainty that Tennessee is about to enact Sharia Law, etc.

[ursus arctos]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

And now he's lost his "Crisis PR" firm

[WOM]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

We'll file that under 'You Know It's Bad When...".

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

ursus arctos wrote: I think that's fair, but that what it misses is that the bells and whistles tend to make give people more confidence in the validity of the bullshit than what they got from the guy in the barber shop, with the corollary that it is therefore more difficult to disabuse them of their certainty that Tennessee is about to enact Sharia Law, etc.

Yes, exactly.

[Reed John]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

Is Navigator known for taking on difficult clients? I'm not familiar.

[Max Payne]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

WOM wrote: It'll be interesting to see what he does for a living for the rest of his life.

Sewing mailbags if there's any justice it would seem.

[Flynnie]

The Jian Ghomeshi 'scandal'.

ursus arctos wrote: I think that's fair, but that what it misses is that the bells and whistles tend to give people more confidence in the validity of the bullshit than what they got from the guy in the barber shop, with the corollary that it is therefore more difficult to disabuse them of their certainty that Tennessee is about to enact Sharia Law, etc.

My guess is those middle-aged folks who parrot that shit on the Internet are old enough to have bought into TV news having gravitas, but just not clever enough to see the emperor has no clothes.