Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Renée Zellweger's face

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #26
    Renée Zellweger's face

    I think if you're going to go through such a radical change, why stop there ? Change your name, move to a new country and pretend to be someone else entirely.

    Comment


      #27
      Renée Zellweger's face

      I am not sure that would help her movie career.

      My instant reaction, similar with a women I met recently with equally drastic plastic surgery, is one of, not pity, but sadness. I probably shouldn't feel either but, you know, it's a symptom of shiploads of features of modern life. Obviously, it isn't just a female thing but I still haven't seen a man in their 40s who has done a Zellweger. Only a matter of time, I suppose.

      Comment


        #28
        Renée Zellweger's face

        Bored of Education wrote: Obviously, it isn't just a female thing but I still haven't seen a man in their 40s who has done a Zellweger. Only a matter of time, I suppose.
        Michael Jackson?

        Different kettle of fish there, really, though.

        Comment


          #29
          Renée Zellweger's face

          Mickey Rourke.

          Comment


            #30
            Renée Zellweger's face

            Geoffrey de Ste. Croix wrote: When I write my book about things I couldn't give a fuck about, this will be chapter one.
            You started a thread on it.

            Zellweger's own list of things she shouldn't have to give a fuck about ought to begin with "what other people say about my face". Sadly, that isn't going to be possible for her.

            I don't want to pick on Geoffrey because this is a widespread phenomenon, but the business of commenting on a famous woman's appearance in order to say "I don't care at all about this" bothers me. It's particularly prevalent in those Buzzfeed/Daily Mail sidebar stories which wear their frivolity on their sleeve. It comes across to me as 'Get this out of my sight; it is not news!' And it is couched in the language of laissez-faire: women can do what they like to themselves, I won't stand in their way.

            But for women, questions relating to our appearance are never out of sight; and (the more so as we age) we cannot do what we like to ourselves. I would love not to worry about what people say about my face. But not giving a fuck is a luxury I don't have.

            The policing of Zellweger's face is not media fluff: it goes right to the heart of the questions about freedom, choice, constraint and coercion that are some of the paradoxes of contemporary womanhood. Zellweger's decision — a magnified version of all of our decisions — has potentially life-changing material and physical consequences. "I don't give a fuck about any of that" seems a rather self-centred and entitled attitude, in the circumstances.

            Comment


              #31
              Renée Zellweger's face

              I've read that twice now, and I sincerely cannot tell where you stand on this whole thing. Are you saying that she shouldn't care what we think about it? Or that we shouldn't be caring about it to begin with? Or it's a shame she thought she had to care what her face looks like in the first place?

              I think it's a massive fucking shame that she thought there was anything wrong with her face in the first place. If, indeed, that's what motivated her to do whatever it was that she did.

              Comment


                #32
                Renée Zellweger's face

                If someone extremely famous changes their features to the point where they look like someone else entirely, then of course there is going to be huge media interest in it. It happened with Jacko, it happened with Mickey Rourke, it happened with even much less famous people like the Duchess of Alba.

                The people sneering at her are mean-spirited pricks, obviously. She doesn't look bad (her new appearance reminds me a little bit of Olivia Newton John), just different from before. Extremely different from before. Hence the mass public amazement.

                Comment


                  #33
                  Renée Zellweger's face

                  I'd say it's a bit disingenuous (or something) for men to pretend they have no input (as a group, difficult as that is) into how women think and feel about their looks and that it's a "woman thing".

                  Sure, woman often scrutinise and police each other on the minutae, but it's the men holding up the metaphorical score cards.

                  Before I trigger a bout of sighing, this is me making a tentative point around biopolitics, not having a go at anyone here.

                  Comment


                    #34
                    Renée Zellweger's face

                    Really? Apart from the case of women who are in a phase of actively seeking a man (or a new man), I am very sceptical about how much men's views on women's appearance count compared to the views of fellow women.

                    Comment


                      #35
                      Renée Zellweger's face

                      I've read that twice now, and I sincerely cannot tell where you stand on this whole thing. Are you saying that she shouldn't care what we think about it? Or that we shouldn't be caring about it to begin with? Or it's a shame she thought she had to care what her face looks like in the first place?

                      I think it's a massive fucking shame that she thought there was anything wrong with her face in the first place. If, indeed, that's what motivated her to do whatever it was that she did.
                      Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at with this. Submitting oneself to cosmetic surgery is a big, big decision - that's why most people don't do it. Other than superficial annoyance at the story hitting main news pages, I've no idea what was behind Geoffrey's decision to start this thread - but I have to say I don't see it as a 'female' issue at all. Regardless of gender, the reasoning behind undergoing surgery is often low self-esteem - or in extreme cases, a mental health issue. If RZ is suffering from anything like this - and the severity of the work that she's had done suggests that she might be - then it's a damn shame.

                      Comment


                        #36
                        Renée Zellweger's face

                        Metro has done a slider thing so that you can compare before and after photos.

                        If it is her, she has really changed the shape of her eyes.

                        I didn't find her particularly attractive and most of her films were terrible to watch. But it is a shame she felt the need to alter her appearance. I thin she wanted to be a rom-com icon, when she might have been better doing other things.

                        Comment


                          #37
                          Renée Zellweger's face

                          Evariste Euler Gauss wrote: Really? Apart from the case of women who are in a phase of actively seeking a man (or a new man), I am very sceptical about how much men's views on women's appearance count compared to the views of fellow women.
                          As I said, women are more focused on the detail, but men sit in judgement of women('s looks) all the time, without even realising they're doing it. Hot or not. Look at the Chrissie Hynde thread on here. Look at this thread "she looked cute before ..."

                          Comment


                            #38
                            Renée Zellweger's face

                            That's a good observation. Women fuss over details than men don't care about and sometimes adopt trends that men aren't fond of, but male opinion - real or imagined - may still influence women's choices. I'm not a woman so I don't know more than that.

                            It's just odd that she'd want to look so different. Hollywood actors are, among other things, brands, of a sort. So if you liked a movie she was in, you're more inclined to want to see her in another. That's largely why actors whose previous films have been profitable get paid so much for the next one.

                            I don't think she looks bad now. It's good plastic surgery, as that goes. I guess. By contrast, Micki Rourke looks inhuman as did Joan Rivers.

                            I'm inclined to sort of agree with WOM. If you got rich by being pretty and young, you can't legitimately complain when that disappears, as if it were your birthright. But there are more good roles for men of varying ages and men in their 40s and 50s are the protagonists in big budget movies far more often then women are.

                            Comment


                              #39
                              Renée Zellweger's face

                              MsD wrote:
                              Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss
                              Really? Apart from the case of women who are in a phase of actively seeking a man (or a new man), I am very sceptical about how much men's views on women's appearance count compared to the views of fellow women.
                              As I said, women are more focused on the detail, but men sit in judgement of women('s looks) all the time, without even realising they're doing it. Hot or not. Look at the Chrissie Hynde thread on here. Look at this thread "she looked cute before ..."
                              It's a primal thing, though, not in itself a cultural expression of sexual politics. Women do the same thing with men. We are programmed to do that to facilitate the process of procreation.

                              However, and there I think we'll agree, the crucial question is in which ways this instinctive evaluation finds expression. If it is demeaning or imposes behaviour on others, it is not acceptable.

                              So there's nothing wrong in saying that Chrissie Hynde (or, for that matter, George Clooney or whoever) is attractive. It would be objectionable to be lecherous about it, or to suggest that Chrissie Hynde has in fact let herself go.

                              Comment


                                #40
                                Renée Zellweger's face

                                Bored of Education wrote:
                                Obviously, it isn't just a female thing but I still haven't seen a man in their 40s who has done a Zellweger.
                                Shane Richie off Eastenders still looks like Shane Richie, but now resembles a Madame Tussaud's version of his 30-year-old self.

                                Comment


                                  #41
                                  Renée Zellweger's face

                                  Bored of Education wrote: Obviously, it isn't just a female thing but I still haven't seen a man in their 40s who has done a Zellweger.

                                  Comment


                                    #42
                                    Renée Zellweger's face

                                    G-Man wrote:
                                    Originally posted by MsD
                                    Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss
                                    Really? Apart from the case of women who are in a phase of actively seeking a man (or a new man), I am very sceptical about how much men's views on women's appearance count compared to the views of fellow women.
                                    As I said, women are more focused on the detail, but men sit in judgement of women('s looks) all the time, without even realising they're doing it. Hot or not. Look at the Chrissie Hynde thread on here. Look at this thread "she looked cute before ..."
                                    It's a primal thing, though, not in itself a cultural expression of sexual politics. Women do the same thing with men. We are programmed to do that to facilitate the process of procreation.

                                    However, and there I think we'll agree, the crucial question is in which ways this instinctive evaluation finds expression. If it is demeaning or imposes behaviour on others, it is not acceptable.

                                    So there's nothing wrong in saying that Chrissie Hynde (or, for that matter, George Clooney or whoever) is attractive. It would be objectionable to be lecherous about it, or to suggest that Chrissie Hynde has in fact let herself go.
                                    There is nothing like equivalence in women's appraisal of men versus men's appraisal of women.

                                    It may be "primal" in origin, but we're a long way from the jungle or whatever now, still this judgement of women's looks runs throughout culture and is used as a tool of control.

                                    Comment


                                      #43
                                      Renée Zellweger's face

                                      laverte wrote:
                                      Originally posted by Geoffrey de Ste. Croix
                                      When I write my book about things I couldn't give a fuck about, this will be chapter one.
                                      You started a thread on it.
                                      Well of course, I could have been a little less obtuse. I couldn't give a flying rat's arse about Zellweger or her plastic surgery, the reason I started the thread is because millions do. That's what interests me- the response. There's been an internet drowning tsunami of news, report, discussion, debate and argument about Zellweger. It's that side I'm interested in, what it tells us about contemporary media and identity etc and I knew we'd get good debate about it on WSC, hence the thread.

                                      Comment


                                        #44
                                        Renée Zellweger's face

                                        WOM wrote: I've read that twice now, and I sincerely cannot tell where you stand on this whole thing.
                                        Oh, that's good. I'm not sure it's appropriate to take a stand on people's faces. Apart from the ones that make you wretch, like, say, Jean-Marie Le Pen's.

                                        I try not to judge any woman* on what she chooses to do to her body. I also accept that, whether I like it or not, the issue of what women* do to their bodies is political, and very heavily charged. I won't criticise any woman* for having an opinion on that and wanting to talk about it.

                                        But the politics are easily drowned out by speculation about the details, the quality and the necessity of the makeover. What on earth could have prompted a beautiful, wealthy woman in early middle age to remake herself via the cosmetics/diet/medical industries?

                                        Since I turned 40 last year, my facebook page has begun to run adverts for tummy tucking, breast enhancement (ha!), and other cosmetic 'improvements'. It has long recommended celebrity diets and exercise regimes, and unmissable offers on beauty products that I wouldn't know how to use.

                                        I think the argument about whether men or women are more responsible for policing women's* bodies misses the point. In an individualistic liberal economy, women* are judged by their ability to police themselves (and to make it seem as effortless as possible). Their guides are rarely actual people: they are more usually fantasies of transformation picked up from magazines, commercials and beauty salons, for the approval of a sort of 'ideal viewer' (which might well be oneself). Perhaps this explains why cosmetic surgery is still sneered at: the alterations are too ferocious, and they have been delegated to a third party. That is cheating.

                                        *I've talked about women here because political discourses about bodies are heavily gendered. (Heavily, not exclusively.) I have no idea how much pressure there is on men to conform to body ideals as they age — more than there used to be, surely. But the opportunities (and the sanctions) for not doing so are not the same. That's why men passing judgement on a woman's appearance is inescapably a matter of gender politics.

                                        Comment


                                          #45
                                          Renée Zellweger's face

                                          Agree, but do you think the self-policing has an element of proxy?

                                          Comment


                                            #46
                                            Renée Zellweger's face

                                            Andy Townsends Tactics Truck wrote: I honestly thought that Juliette Lewis had gone blonde.

                                            I've never seen surgery as radical as that in somebody so young. she has a completely different face, which itself isn't unattractive, but she was perfectly attractive anyway...and I know somebody posted a photo of Kenny Rogers, but the guy's in his seventies, how old is Renee Zellweger? 40-odd?

                                            Crazy.
                                            That was Willie Nelson, not Kenny Rogers.

                                            Comment


                                              #47
                                              Renée Zellweger's face

                                              Vicarious Thrillseeker wrote: That was Willie Nelson, not Kenny Rogers.
                                              No, it's Kenny Rogers.

                                              Comment


                                                #48
                                                Renée Zellweger's face

                                                I think that was the joke.

                                                Comment


                                                  #49
                                                  Renée Zellweger's face

                                                  Ah. Too subtle for me.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #50
                                                    Renée Zellweger's face

                                                    MsD wrote:
                                                    Originally posted by G-Man
                                                    Originally posted by MsD
                                                    Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss
                                                    Really? Apart from the case of women who are in a phase of actively seeking a man (or a new man), I am very sceptical about how much men's views on women's appearance count compared to the views of fellow women.
                                                    As I said, women are more focused on the detail, but men sit in judgement of women('s looks) all the time, without even realising they're doing it. Hot or not. Look at the Chrissie Hynde thread on here. Look at this thread "she looked cute before ..."
                                                    It's a primal thing, though, not in itself a cultural expression of sexual politics. Women do the same thing with men. We are programmed to do that to facilitate the process of procreation.

                                                    However, and there I think we'll agree, the crucial question is in which ways this instinctive evaluation finds expression. If it is demeaning or imposes behaviour on others, it is not acceptable.

                                                    So there's nothing wrong in saying that Chrissie Hynde (or, for that matter, George Clooney or whoever) is attractive. It would be objectionable to be lecherous about it, or to suggest that Chrissie Hynde has in fact let herself go.
                                                    There is nothing like equivalence in women's appraisal of men versus men's appraisal of women.

                                                    It may be "primal" in origin, but we're a long way from the jungle or whatever now, still this judgement of women's looks runs throughout culture and is used as a tool of control.
                                                    The primal element remains, whether we want it to or not. So a man will look at the attributes of a woman as a potential mating partner, and a woman will do the same (using different attributes). That part of the psychology is normal.

                                                    We are in agreement that the body image can be and widely is used to judge and control women. But not every reference by males to the attractiveness of a woman is intrinsically sexist, demeaning or controlling.

                                                    As I said before, the way in which our primal instincts find expression is impoortant.

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X