Renée Zellweger's face

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

OK, can we have someone else's opinion here?

He has NOT come up with any evidence, at all.

Fucking fraudster.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

Toro Toro wrote: Meanwhile, my position is that there is no point wasting time trying to persuade a tendentious idiot of what - had they any mind to be persuaded - they could very easily find out for themselves. The tendentious idiot thinks that, having added a monetary incentive for themselves to remain a tendentious idiot, my ongoing refusal to waste my time shows I must be wrong.

I don't jump for pennies, and MsD is a strikingly stupid individual.

What's this thing that people could very easily find out for themselves, but you wouldn't waste your time on, then?

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

Toro Toro wrote: That idiotic ev-psych findings are widely reported and misreported doesn't give them any basis in fact. Somebody who purports to know all about the social sciences should really be aware of this.

Do I have the time to do basic research to inform you about this? No. Even if you acquired this particular datum, you'd still be an ignorant blowhard on all sorts of issues, quoting anecdotes, dimly-understood research, and things you heard once on the internet as incontrovertible fact, so any marginal improvement I could effect would be a singular waste of my time.

Again, what particular datum?

[Toro Toro]

Renée Zellweger's face

Identifying any single metric as "the" crucial element in explaining complex human behaviour is hopeless, and the very possibility of doing so has been endlessly debunked.

But you knew that. You're just in the "throw up enough shit to piss everybody off and make them lose interest then claim you really won" stage now.

Which is why I'm out of this.

I responded to ursus, but you are a mendacious halfwit with no particular interest in the truth of the matter, and I have no interest in engaging with you further.

Threaten my career again if you like, I don't care. Post another thousand-word screed on Christmas Eve about how little you value my opinion. You're an idiot, and have exposed yourself as an idiot, and I'm not about to help you try and disguise that fact by pretending you're worth conversing with.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

No, I'm not the one who tries to make arguments more complicated in order to confuse and intimidate others.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

Toro Toro wrote:

Identifying any single metric as "the" crucial element in explaining complex human behaviour is hopeless, and the very possibility of doing so has been endlessly debunked.

But you knew that. You're just in the "throw up enough shit to piss everybody off and make them lose interest then claim you really won" stage now.

Which is why I'm out of this.

I responded to ursus, but you are a mendacious halfwit with no particular interest in the truth of the matter, and I have no interest in engaging with you further.

Threaten my career again if you like, I don't care. Post another thousand-word screed on Christmas Eve about how little you value my opinion. You're an idiot, and have been exposed as an idiot, and I'm not about to help you try and disguise that fact by pretending you're worth conversing with.

"Little White Bull" earworm.

Everyday alone in the meadow, he'd find things to charge
Till one day he really imagined, that his horns were large ...

And people said, what a funny little bull
What a fluffy little bull, he's our little bull
He marched along, a proud little bull
And hit the town!

PS, please note I had left all this behind in 2014, I wasn't the one who started it up again today.

[Bored Of Education]

Renée Zellweger's face

Sorry, ursus, that hasn't really clarified it for me but I think that it is my issue rather than anything.

For what it's worth, the WHR thing makes sense to me but that is a purely personal preference, I can't make any claims for it being empiracally true.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

MsD wrote: OK, well getting back to a nice conversational tone to the main topic of the thread - the pressure put on women to look a certain way:

The latest thing being pushed on us is to tackle our "unsightly" facial hair.  I don't mean dark hair on the lip and chin that can make a woman look a little swarthy (and swarthy is fine, if you're dark-skinned), I mean the fine, downy hair that we all have on our faces, that we're now encouraged to regard as "fuzz".

There are laser treatments and gadgets galore around to deal with this terrible hairy face problem that is sweeping the planet. I nearly talked myself into getting laser treatment, after looking at my face in a 12x magnifying mirror and deciding yes, there definitely is some fuzz there.  Luckily I checked this with a couple of friends who said "uh? What hair?" and then I read about people having treatments, only to look weirdly wax-skinned.  What finally reassured me was seing photos of lovely January Jones, with her light downy facial hair visible.  If it's good enough for Betty Draper, it's fine.

I've now received an email from a market research company looking for "mothers with daughters aged 11-13" to take part in a discussion about "shaving habits". Shaving habits?? When you're 11-13? So they're trying to make young girls worry about their bodies even more than they already do?

I'm bumping this, as I don't want to repeat it, but I do think it's quite important. Not especially my opinion, but I think it important that women shouldn't be encouraged to think they have hairier faces than they actually do.

But everywhere, on FB, Amazon etc. we're getting these gadgets pushed at us.

Get your legs waxed/lasered (OK, fair enough), your eyebrows shaped (hmm .. ) and now, get rid of that disgusting fuzz on your face!

[Amor de Cosmos]

Renée Zellweger's face

It seems to be not just a female thing anymore (though obviously women are being targeted by advertisers.) La Signora goes to life drawing classes every week, and notes that it's a rarity to see male models with body hair these days. I'm not sure what's responsible for the trend towards excessive hairlessness. Porn? A latent reaction to the hairy 60s/70s? Obsessive concerns about body odour?

[Patrick Thistle]

Renée Zellweger's face

I don't mind the hair on my tummy. But the stuff that's started growing on the top of my back is quite ugly and I have thought about waxing it.

[Bored Of Education]

Renée Zellweger's face

I would have thought that legs and armpit denuding, rather than being acceptable, is really the start of the prescriptive attitude towards women's bodily hair. Let's face it, Julia Roberts still copped it only 15 years ago and then you get this shit.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

Well, there's "problem hair", which is kind of debatable, but now they really are trying to get us to worry about that velvety, almost invisible down that nobody was conscious of, even five years ago AFAIK. The only "facial hair" any girls worried about, or were teased about, was an obvious moustache, or monobrow.

Is it healthy to zap it off with a laser or wax it? Does it not form some protective layer?

[Amor de Cosmos]

Renée Zellweger's face

I would have thought that legs and armpit denuding, rather than being acceptable, is really the start of the prescriptive attitude towards women's bodily hair.

I think the prescriptive attitude waxes and wanes (sorry!) In the second generation feminist era many women my age were totally unshaved, in part as as a reaction to the airbrushed Hefnerite 50s and 60s. But that attitude seems to have disappeared and the depilitated look is more rampant than ever.

[MsD]

Renée Zellweger's face

Not to be too purist about it - I like a man to do a bit of grooming and tidying, most men shave their faces at least a bit.

What is worrying is the shaming aspect aimed at women and girls, the "ugh, she hasn't shaved her pits!" thing being extended further and further.

Marilyn Monroe was apparently a hairy-faced monster, and she is being touted as a "fuzz pride icon". The fuzz may be what gave her face that luminous quality in photographs.*

* I read this in Vogue.

[Sam]

Renée Zellweger's face

Amor de Cosmos wrote: It seems to be not just a female thing anymore (though obviously women are being targeted by advertisers.) La Signora goes to life drawing classes every week, and notes that it's a rarity to see male models with body hair these days. I'm not sure what's responsible for the trend towards excessive hairlessness. Porn? A latent reaction to the hairy 60s/70s? Obsessive concerns about body odour?

My (now blessedly ex-)flatmate and his boyfriend shaved their body hair very regularly. I wouldn't have noticed this - I'm a naturally unhairy person myself, and would have assumed he was too, if it weren't for the fact that for days after he shaved himself, every time, I'd be finding small bits and pieces of his body hair all over the fucking flat, as if it was finely coating every surface. He'd only ever do it in the bathroom, but somehow he managed to get it all over the living room floor and the kitchen as well. He's probably suffocating in a mass of his own body hair by now.

My girlfriend's dad is possibly the world's hairiest man. She once had to trim his back hair for him when her mum was on holiday, and says it's an experience she never wants to have to repeat (he doesn't trim it any more, which is just as well for my girlfriend given her mum died last year, which would presumably make her Back Trimmer Number One).

[Amor de Cosmos]

Renée Zellweger's face

I believe my son-in-law is the same, and he finds it quite embarrassing. I don't really understand why but, being basically the Nordic blond type I'm not really able to empathise I guess.

[Sam]

Renée Zellweger's face

Oh, I can totally understand why people might want to trim or remove their body hair. I just found my ex-flatmate's habit of leaving it all over the flat rather irritating.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Renée Zellweger's face

Yeah, that's pretty gross, like leaving toenail clippings on the side of the bath.

[nmrfox]

Renée Zellweger's face

I've always been hairy chested but as the years have gone by, the hair on my head seems to have done some pact with the devil and decided to recede whilst growing on my back instead.

A few years ago it started to seem that having a hairy back was a gross thing. I can remember adverts that pointed this out, and even on this NYE whilst watching an episode of The Inbetweeners, a male model was asked to leave the catwalk cos the girl organiser pointed out he had a hairy back.

The good Mrs R will use the electric razor on mine around 4 times a year. I have had it waxed before (god that hurt), but the only thing that is hurt now is my pride. She says (bless her) that she doesn't mind doing it, but I still cannot stand it and always wear a tee-shirt on holiday unless I'm in the pool/sea.

I asked my dad about it - god that was an embarrassing conversation - and he says he never had a problem with it when he used to go on holidays and seems to remember a good number of blokes were the same. Seems that nowadays bodily hair on a man is also a bit of a taboo subject when it comes to what the perception on TV of the ideal body should be.

[Patrick Thistle]

Renée Zellweger's face

I know the complete lack of hair thing is linked to porn, but I don't understand why apparently a hairy genital region is supposed to be disgusting and a turn off. If men are attracted to hairless female pubic regions I just assume they are closet paedophiles.

It's the usual tabloid doublethink. Paedo outrage - ugh, she's got hair!

[Satchmo Distel]

Pete Burns is trending on Twitter as Madonna joins the "ruin your face" club:

https://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...6a7036b425ee4e

[WOM]

Eugh...she's tedious. She thought she'd show up at the Grammy's for a bit of self-congratulatory blah blah.

[caja-dglh]

What a nice thread.

[Satchmo Distel]

I hesitated to revive it but I am rather surprised and saddened that someone with Madonna's not giving a fuck attitude would feel she had to do this.

If Snake wants to lock it, I've no objections.

[Balderdasha]

She would probably be getting just as many "eugh, what happened to Madonna" responses if she'd just aged naturally. There isn't really a way for a 64 year old female pop star known for her looks to win.

Hating / taunting women for getting plastic surgery is as nonsensical and misogynistic as hating women for wearing make up or taunting them for having cellulite. I personally can't imagine wanting to get plastic surgery, but if it exists and is legal, you can't have a go at people who opt to undergo these procedures.