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Black Face in the Stadiums

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    #26
    Black Face in the Stadiums

    Talking of which, those Ulster Rugby players, eh? Tsk. Silly boys.

    Or racist cunts, if you prefer.

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      #27
      Black Face in the Stadiums

      a tribute to Alex Witsel
      Right, so painting your face jet black is an appropriate tribute to a light-brown skinned guy of mixed race. Super.

      In fact, you could hardly give a better example of the dehumanising and othering that blackface is all about than this. Witsel's father is from Martinique, his mother is white and Belgian, you'd think he's an unremarkable looking guy, certainly in any west european context- but no, 'one drop' of non-white blood, and it's out with the boot polish. Because black skin is fucking hilarious, really, isn't it?

      Comment


        #28
        Black Face in the Stadiums

        According to the Guardian, anyone who objects to black face is "desperate to be offended by very little".

        http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/05/football-fiver-manchester-united-nemanja-vidic

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          #29
          Black Face in the Stadiums

          Janik wrote: Talking of which, those Ulster Rugby players, eh? Tsk. Silly boys.

          Or racist cunts, if you prefer.
          ????

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            #30
            Black Face in the Stadiums

            All dressing up is a form of caricature. You take the two of three features of a person you find the most noticeable and mimic and exaggerate those in he hope that people will recognise you as playing that person.

            If you think one of the most noticeable things about Alex Witsel, or George Weah, is the colour of their skin, then you are being racist. Simple as.

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              #31
              Black Face in the Stadiums

              PPV, let it go. The issue here is not the intent of the person putting on the blackface, which could conceivably done with good intent, it's what the people seeing it think.
              Quite - nobody has this odd 'responsibility' that PPV believes so imperative to second-guess what some blacked-up d*ckhead is trying to achieve.

              Here's another recent example featuring England international Toni Duggan - whose role as an anti-racist campaigner must surely have been called into question after this:

              http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/england-football-international-toni-duggan-comes-under-criticism-for-blacking-up-to-attend-a-party-9170030.html

              While I'm sure Duggan's no racist, if she couldn't see why this was a poor idea then she's clearly not appropriate for the role.

              (Edit: The reader comments below are exactly what you'd expect. Best to leave them alone.)

              Comment


                #32
                Black Face in the Stadiums

                Breaking story, Berba. Stick Ulster Rugby in google at the moment and it should pop up.

                Comment


                  #33
                  Black Face in the Stadiums

                  Jair Womble wrote: Here's another recent example featuring England international Toni Duggan - whose role as an anti-racist campaigner must surely have been called into question after this:

                  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/england-football-international-toni-duggan-comes-under-criticism-for-blacking-up-to-attend-a-party-9170030.html

                  While I'm sure Duggan's no racist, if she couldn't see why this was a poor idea then she's clearly not appropriate for the role.
                  Toni Duggan doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed, unfortunately.

                  Comment


                    #34
                    Black Face in the Stadiums

                    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/ulster-rugby-apologises-for-controversial-twitter-photo-30423922.html

                    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28259305

                    Comment


                      #35
                      Black Face in the Stadiums

                      I don't get why so many white people have difficulty with this.

                      It's not the sort of thing you can do by accident. And I'm genuinely don't believe you can get to your early/mid-twenties without learning that many people consider blackface racist.

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                        #36
                        Black Face in the Stadiums

                        The photograph was posted on Paddy Jackson’s Twitter profile where the four men posed as members of the Ethiopian team at an Olympics-themed party, with the out-half appearing with a chain around his neck and hands.
                        You have got to be f*cking kidding.

                        Comment


                          #37
                          Black Face in the Stadiums

                          Jair, you would have thought so. But nope, clearly visible in the photos. I refer you to my description at 10:29.

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                            #38
                            Black Face in the Stadiums

                            I've seen the image now. Just jaw-dropping.

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                              #39
                              Black Face in the Stadiums

                              Bizarre Löw Triangle wrote: I genuinely don't believe you can get to your early/mid-twenties without learning that many people consider blackface racist.
                              Agreed. Even if you somehow managed to be that sheltered, it wouldn't matter. It is nuclear levels of racism, same as using the word 'nigger'. If someone was doing that, even if they did so in inexplicable genuine ignorance, you wouldn't give them a pass. Ignorance of the associations of Blackface doesn't get one either.

                              By extension, the answer to the question PPV asks here;

                              Pietro Paolo Virdis wrote: Simple question.
                              You think that every white person painting his/her face black is doing something racist?
                              Is that it?
                              is 'yes'.

                              Comment


                                #40
                                Black Face in the Stadiums

                                Pietro Paolo Virdis wrote: Maybe, as many of us here on OTF have noticed, they also noticed that there have been almost none visible African-Brazilian fans in the stands, and wanted to make a statement?
                                If this was the case, there should have been some indication that they were trying to make such a statement. Informing people is one of the keys for performance art, making it clear what you are doing and why. And that is still not enough for it to be OK, as that Swedish Minister found over the cake incident.

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                                  #41
                                  Black Face in the Stadiums

                                  Kurt Bafokeng wrote: I'd like to help PPV here a little bit. Could it be the case that "black facing" with its history is a cultural code largely confined to the US and maybe the UK? And that people who are not from those countries might not necessarily be aware of it and might therefore colour their faces indeed as a tribute to one of their players. Naive maybe, but probably not in any circumstance malicious.
                                  I think that is fair comment. Context is important. I don't believe "that every white person painting his/her face black is doing something racist". It is when played for laughs or used to express contempt. A kid blacking up to plasy one the Three Wise Men is not being racist.

                                  Having said that, being blacked up and wearing an Afro wig is a pretty clear case of racist stereotyping. These guys might not be grand wizards in the KKK, and in their attempt at creating mirth might even be oblivious to their foolishness -- much as the RAF pilot dudes at Germany vs England 2010.

                                  We needn't regard them as footsoldiers of King Leopold, but we cannot tolerate that kind of thing either.

                                  Comment


                                    #42
                                    Black Face in the Stadiums

                                    Context is important - for example, we know that a fictional and contemporary creation like Papa Lazarou in League of Gentlemen is clearly a caricature, a one-off grotesque ridiculing an extinct stereotype - but I'd reiterate the point I made upthread about this strange assumption that the onlooker requires some kind of responsibility to unravel what someone's intentions are.

                                    A kid blacking up to plasy one the Three Wise Men is not being racist.
                                    The kid mightn't be, however I'd sincerely hope that a teacher or whomsoever would have the judgement to think better of doing this.

                                    'Blackface' - regardless of intention - reduces a person's skin colour to the level of a 'mask', and reinforces it as something both amusing and temporary. If you need a kid to play a black character, find a black kid.

                                    Comment


                                      #43
                                      Black Face in the Stadiums

                                      Versalete wrote:
                                      Originally posted by António Pulisão é um gênio
                                      Blackface is very common in Belgium and the Netherlands.
                                      Wait a minute, what now? Are you talking about a general phenomenon, or is it 'just' the Zwarte Piet phenomenon.
                                      I would call a yearly national holiday where people dress up in black face, and where black face imagery appears in shops and on children's TV for nearly a month, as a "common" occurrence, yes.

                                      Comment


                                        #44
                                        Black Face in the Stadiums

                                        António Pulisão é um gênio wrote: I would call a yearly national holiday where people dress up in black face, and where black face imagery appears in shops and on children's TV for nearly a month, as a "common" occurrence, yes.
                                        You're fully entitled to do that, but then at least provide the context. Simply saying that "Blackface is very common in Belgium and the Netherlands" makes it seem as if people in those countries do this randomly all the time, and that is absolutely not the case.

                                        Comment


                                          #45
                                          Black Face in the Stadiums

                                          Jair Womble wrote: Context is important - for example, we know that a fictional and contemporary creation like Papa Lazarou in League of Gentlemen is clearly a caricature, a one-off grotesque ridiculing an extinct stereotype - but I'd reiterate the point I made upthread about this strange assumption that the onlooker requires some kind of responsibility to unravel what someone's intentions are.

                                          A kid blacking up to plasy one the Three Wise Men is not being racist.
                                          The kid mightn't be, however I'd sincerely hope that a teacher or whomsoever would have the judgement to think better of doing this.

                                          'Blackface' - regardless of intention - reduces a person's skin colour to the level of a 'mask', and reinforces it as something both amusing and temporary. If you need a kid to play a black character, find a black kid.
                                          That's presupposing you live in a multi-cultural area though. In my school year of 200 children there was one black child. If he was always picked to play the black character that would have been socially awkward and isolating in itself.

                                          There is an issue over fancy dress and what is acceptable. But if someone with a very pale skin complexion (like me) wanted to dress up as Pele, just putting on a Brazil shirt isn't going to be enough.

                                          However, if I was at a party and someone had blacked up as Pele I would find that mortifyingly uncomfortable even if I couldn't see any racist intent.

                                          I know racism and stupidity go hand in hand, both feeding the other, but they aren't the same thing. I'd be careful of calling someone racist on the basis of them doing something stupid. But, if you explained to them that it was racist and they carried on doing it,then that's where stupidity is no longer an excuse.

                                          Comment


                                            #46
                                            Black Face in the Stadiums

                                            Versalete wrote:
                                            Originally posted by António Pulisão é um gênio
                                            I would call a yearly national holiday where people dress up in black face, and where black face imagery appears in shops and on children's TV for nearly a month, as a "common" occurrence, yes.
                                            You're fully entitled to do that, but then at least provide the context. Simply saying that "Blackface is very common in Belgium and the Netherlands" makes it seem as if people in those countries do this randomly all the time, and that is absolutely not the case.
                                            It means exactly what it means. It means that it is a yearly occurrence enjoyed and accepted by 90-plus percent of the population. By definition, it is a common occurrence.

                                            One can simply state that black face is common in the Netherlands. It does not have to be put into the context of Zwarte Piet.

                                            Comment


                                              #47
                                              Black Face in the Stadiums

                                              Bizarre Löw Triangle wrote: I don't get why so many white people have difficulty with this.

                                              It's not the sort of thing you can do by accident. And I'm genuinely don't believe you can get to your early/mid-twenties without learning that many people consider blackface racist.
                                              I think a reason is that a lot of young people that do this go into it thinking "well, it's just a joke. I'm not trying to be mean or racist." Without any thought to the history involved, because that would be too much work. Then when people get offended their reaction is "but I wasn't trying to be offensive. If people were offended, that's their problem".

                                              Because when it comes down to it, and sorry if this is really horribly essentializing, and you're free to say "not all white people," but a lot of white people think they have the right to do any sort of cultural/racial appropriation they want to, including putting on costumes to dress up like another culture/race, and they shouldn't be held responsible if people think it's racist.

                                              Comment


                                                #48
                                                Black Face in the Stadiums

                                                'Blackface' - regardless of intention - reduces a person's skin colour to the level of a 'mask', and reinforces it as something both amusing and temporary.
                                                How about Othello then?

                                                Comment


                                                  #49
                                                  Black Face in the Stadiums

                                                  Cast a black actor. Or if you cast a white actor as some kind of resetting schtick, have him play the role in his normal skin. Otherwise you are in Peter Sellers territory.

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                                                    #50
                                                    Black Face in the Stadiums

                                                    .

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