Black Face in the Stadiums

[Janik]

FIFA doesn't want to know about problems at their party. What a surprise.

Full report here.

[Bored Of Education]

Black Face in the Stadiums

The seriousness of this was dissipated, I am afraid, by the shocked look on the horse's head in the first photograph.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums

This one is plain stupid

FIFA World Cup Brazil 2014: Belgium

An individual supporter of Belgium was pictured inside a stadium with his
face
painted black.

Fare passed the details of the incident to FIFA Disciplinary Committee.

Since when is that racism?
If it was combined with something else which obviously was meant to be racism, but painting your face black in itself can't be racism.

[Jah Womble]

Black Face in the Stadiums

So what else might 'painting your face black' suggest or promote? The yearning desire to become a chimney sweep that one simply has to share with a crowd of strangers?

[Janik]

Black Face in the Stadiums

PPV, it is such an long established form of racism that it even has it's own name, Black Face, as referenced in the thread title.

Paint your face black and you are automatically associating yourself with all of that shit.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Jair Womble wrote: So what else might 'painting your face black' suggest or promote? The yearning desire to become a chimney sweep that one simply has to share with a crowd of strangers?

Here we go again.
"Suggest"
Come with some proof instead of all this what it might be suggesting.

Fuck do I know what those Belgian fans were thinking and why they'd done it. Call them up and ask, then it might be interesting. It sure as hell can't be automatically racism because of what it might "suggest".

Maybe, as many of us here on OTF have noticed, they also noticed that there have been almost none visible African-Brazilian fans in the stands, and wanted to make a statement?

To point them out as racist automatically for painting their faces black is utter bullshit.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Janik wrote: PPV, it is such an long established form of racism that it even has it's own name, Black Face, as referenced in the thread title.

Paint your face black and you are automatically associating yourself with all of that shit.

So that's what those Belgian fans were doing, without doubt?
Fantastic.
Good to know, and glad it was cleared. I had planned to go as George Weah on the next costume party but an albino version simply won't work and I don't want to be a racist so I think I'll go as a road cone instead. Or is that too close to a amputee, color blind member of KKK?

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums



Of course it's without question that they did it out of racism.

It's beyond doubt and not at all possible that it was a tribute to Alex Witsel.

[Jah Womble]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Here we go again.
"Suggest"
Come with some proof instead of all this what it might be suggesting.

Fuck do I know what those Belgian fans were thinking and why they'd done it. Call them up and ask, then it might be interesting. It sure as hell can't be automatically racism because of what it might "suggest".

Maybe, as many of us here on OTF have noticed, they also noticed that there have been almost none visible African-Brazilian fans in the stands, and wanted to make a statement?

To point them out as racist automatically for painting their faces black is utter bullshit.

Yep, you said it. 'Here we go again.'

First of all, I didn't say what it 'was', or what it 'wasn't' - I asked you (or anyone else, FTM) what you felt it might suggest or might promote?

Blacking-up - which is what this is - sends out a very clear suggestion in this day and age (as Janik has spelled out). If there's a danger that one's attitude or appearance might be misinterpreted in a certain way, then perhaps one might think twice about going out in such a way in the first place?

Similarly, if an adult has, in some way, somehow strangely missed this fairly transparent point throughout his life, then another person (whether in authority or otherwise) needs to take him to one side and suggest quietly that it perhaps isn't the best idea.

All pretty obvious stuff, I'd've thought.

[Incandenza]

Black Face in the Stadiums

[Incandenza]

Black Face in the Stadiums

PPV, if you honestly don't understand why this is offensive, don't demand that we need to explain it to you. Most everyone now understands that it's something that's incredibly racist, whether the intent is malicious or not.

Since you're obviously not willing to take the response that it's racist and leave it at that, then please educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

http://black-face.com/

http://globalgrind.com/2013/10/30/reason-why-its-not-ok-to-wear-blackface-list-photos/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/30/blackface-halloween-costumes-obviously-offensive

[Jah Womble]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Most everyone now understands that it's something that's incredibly racist, whether the intent is malicious or not.

That's the key point here, of course. I mean, The Black & White Minstrel Show was intended as a 'tribute', for Christ's sake.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Incandinho wrote: PPV, if you honestly don't understand why this is offensive, don't demand that we need to explain it to you. Most everyone now understands that it's something that's incredibly racist, whether the intent is malicious or not.

Since you're obviously not willing to take the response that it's racist and leave it at that, then please educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

http://black-face.com/

http://globalgrind.com/2013/10/30/reason-why-its-not-ok-to-wear-blackface-list-photos/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/30/blackface-halloween-costumes-obviously-offensive

Simple question.
You think that every white person painting his/her face black is doing something racist?
Is that it?

[Jah Womble]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Point-missing on a quite spectacular scale.

[Kurt Bafokeng]

Black Face in the Stadiums

I'd like to help PPV here a little bit. Could it be the case that "black facing" with its history is a cultural code largely confined to the US and maybe the UK? And that people who are not from those countries might not necessarily be aware of it and might therefore colour their faces indeed as a tribute to one of their players. Naive maybe, but probably not in any circumstance malicious.

And just as an aside: As a child I went "Sternsingen" (kind of religious carol singing for a good cause, dressed as the Three Wise Men) for three yeras. One of our group had a black face, of course.

[Incandenza]

Black Face in the Stadiums

edit: to PPV--I can only assume you're being willfully ignorant on this and really have no interest in this. So go ahead and fight the good fight for keeping blackface alive, but you have no right to be offended when no one wants to engage with you.

[Pietro Paolo Virdis]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Yes, that's truly my aim.
Next you'll say that I'm promoting the blackface version you've linked to and that I want as many as possible to do it.

I really have no time for this if what I said to begin with is to be forced into blackface like it was proven.
All I've said is that the report with the part about the Belgians is bullshit. For all we know it might have been their favorite player is Witsel. If it was, I doubt he'd feel as upset as some people seem to be about the facepaint.
If it was indeed two persons doings some stupid racist joke, then of course they're assholes.
Nothing in the report or in those pictures proves it either way. The report however claims it is a clear case of racism. Clear. not maybe. Clear.

That's the only thing I've been against here. To throw it into 5th gear, bombard with links about blackface as some sort of evidence. I simply can't agree. I'm well aware of the stupid kind of way people paint themselves black.

And I think that's enough for me about this.

[Kevin S]

Black Face in the Stadiums

You don't think Axel Witsel, whose signing for Zenit led to a fan petition against black players joining the club, might have been upset by this?

[Jah Womble]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Welcome to 1974.

I'd say it's pretty damn clear why blacking-up is not acceptable - whether maliciously intended or otherwise. However, if somehow you're still in any doubt about this, then perhaps speak to somebody closer to you and get him/her to explain it.

[anton pulisov]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Blackface is very common in Belgium and the Netherlands.

I've tried explaining to people there why it's dodgy, but they just don't get it.

Dan Aykroyd doing blackface with Eddie Murphy

[Toro Toro]

Black Face in the Stadiums

PPV - you've asked, in the past, for people to let you know when you're on dodgy ground regarding racial stuff.

You've been let know, in no uncertain terms, that you are on dodgy ground here.

So, you know, stow it. By your own admission, you're not particularly good at telling what's acceptable and what's not. So when you're roundly told that something isn't, and you persist in defending it, people are going to come to the conclusion that you know perfectly well what's acceptable, and just don't give a fuck.

[Wouter D]

Black Face in the Stadiums

António Pulisão é um gênio wrote: Blackface is very common in Belgium and the Netherlands.

Wait a minute, what now? Are you talking about a general phenomenon, or is it 'just' the Zwarte Piet phenomenon.

There is one particular Saint Nicholas associated cultural context in the Netherlands where people put on blackface. Mind you, I am not saying that that is necessarily acceptable. My point is: as far as I know (and I may be wrong here; by all means let me know if your experiences do not match up with mine), blackface is not accepted by the general audience outside of that context. I have never seen anybody just randomly walking on the street wearing blackface. Hence, in my experience, blackface is not "very common" in the Netherlands.

[Kevin S]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Thanks for that Versa, and the first couple of things that come up about 'Black Pete' suggest that there has been increasing anxiety about his portrayal in the last couple of years as well.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Black Face in the Stadiums

Just last week, the administrative court in Amsterdam advised the mayor Eberhard van der Laan to reconsider the licensing he gave the Sinterklaaas parade through the capital last year saying that the Zwarte Piet character creates a negative stereotype which is insulting to Black people. He has six weeks to respond, obviously having an impact on the parade this year

Slowly but surely, but zwarte piet is so ingrained in Dutch (and Flemish) culture that it will take another generation at least. After a UN working group declared zwarte piet to be racist last year, a facebook campaign supporting the zwarte piet celebration gained 2 million likes in two days.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Black Face in the Stadiums

PPV, let it go. The issue here is not the intent of the person putting on the blackface, which could conceivably done with good intent, it's what the people seeing it think.