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QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

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    QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

    Sure, that's one usage. But there's a different, homophonic one that applies specifically to people.

    As I say, English people don't always pick up the particular unpleasant aspect of that latter usage; and the false-friend effect of the bollock synonym probably aids that. But it's worth pointing out, is all.

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      QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

      I am quite surprised this has carried on. EIM and NHH were ignorant of its origin and are happy to steer clear of it. End of story, surely.

      "Kick in the knackers" may have been used (despite watching Porridge and OFAH regularly, I can't remember it) but it originally came from 'Ulysses" so, you know, it comes back to Ireland. I think that we can say that "A knacker" refers to Irish Travellers and, as such, best avoided.

      Oddly, "knackered", a real London expression, is perfectly fine referring as it does to the state of a horse in a knacker's yard. Where the phrase, "knacker's yard", possibly less so.

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        QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

        Well, exactly.

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          QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

          Yeah, knacker's yard occurred to me yesterday when I was mulling this over. I used to knock about with the traveller community in Grantham, and heard them get called all sorts, but never this. Life, eh? Isn't it complicated.

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            QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

            An entertaining minor scuffle between the Netherlands and its southern neighbor over Tim Krul has broken out.

            Belgian reality TV show superstar and one time goalkeeper Jean-Marie Pfaff condemned Krul’s actions on Saturday night as “scandalous”, adding that his intimidatory tactics should have seen the substitute get at least a yellow card.

            The Dutch have hit back, led by Jack “Orange tinted glasses” van Gelder, accusing Pfaff of hypocrisy, pointing out that the Belgian himself wasn’t adverse to a bit of intimidation, gamesmanship and antics in his years between the sticks and that the whole thing smacks of sour grapes over the fact the Dutch have got further than the Belgians.

            The general mobilization orders haven’t gone out yet, but there is increased troop activity on both sides of the border. Watch this space.

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              QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

              And speaking of Jack van Gelder. Here's a rather odd youtube clip of a 13 year old from Zwolle miming exactly van Gelder's radio commentary from the Mexico game.

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                QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                I'd no idea of the origins of 'knacker', which is a shame because 'fat knacker' is one of my favourite insults. I promise that from now on I will try to only mutter it under my breath and out of human earshot. The things you learn during World Cup month, eh?

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                  QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                  I've just had a research of the term knacker and I've come across dictionary entries that suggest that it originated from the 16th century , originally harness maker then horse slaughterer. Hence the term knacker's yard. Then later it went on to be used as a term for old horses - hence "you old knacker".

                  It seems like Ireland may have adapted the word to mean traveller later, like a lot of old words end up being adapted.

                  Seems like a fair word to use to me.

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                    QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                    http://www.farmersguardian.com/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-knackerman/3481.article

                    An article on the last knacker's yard in Lancashire

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                      QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                      Littlewood wrote: I've just had a research of the term knacker and I've come across dictionary entries that suggest that it originated from the 16th century , originally harness maker then horse slaughterer. Hence the term knacker's yard. Then later it went on to be used as a term for old horses - hence "you old knacker".

                      It seems like Ireland may have adapted the word to mean traveller later, like a lot of old words end up being adapted.

                      Seems like a fair word to use to me.
                      Faggot had a couple of other uses before the homophobic one but I still wouldn't use it (other than in the offal sense).

                      See, I never quite get this. Someone says a word in complete ignorance (as with NHH and EIM), they are put right as to its ability to offend, sometimes, like NHH and EIM, after being informed of this, people decide reasonably enough not to use it. More often, people get defensive about its use and seem to see its use as a human right that's being attacked.

                      The English language is a wonderfully wide and varied language with a massive vocabulary, not least in the area of swearing. There are plenty of words to use that aren't pertaining to minorities.

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                        QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                        What about Inspector Knacker in Private Eye?

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                          QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                          I am not sure how long that has been running. The wiki says
                          Inspector Knacker is your trusty policeman, who also may be "Inspector Knacker of the Yard", that is to say, not very trusty. This is a reference to the knackers' yards where old horses are sent to be put down and disposed of
                          which, I have to say, makes it sound it worse than it possibly is.

                          I think the difference is that nowadays the word is a smaller place and we are not ignorant of the Irish use of "Knacker" anymore due to having much more communication with those from other countries and cultures.

                          Similar with "faggot" - when I was growing up, we wouldn't have known the word as a derogatory homophobic insult. It was, at that time, confined pretty much to America (and, perhaps, bigger cities like London and Manchester).

                          In reverse, I am not sure whether 'wander' has caught on as swearing in the States but, as the world gets smaller, you can imagine it will. 'Married ... with Children's Peggy Bundy's maiden name was Wanker but I am not sure whether that derives from the UK slang. Given the married name they gave her, it could be.

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                            QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                            Bored of Education wrote: See, I never quite get this. Someone says a word in complete ignorance (as with NHH and EIM), they are put right as to its ability to offend, sometimes, like NHH and EIM, after being informed of this, people decide reasonably enough not to use it. More often, people get defensive about its use and seem to see its use as a human right that's being attacked.
                            The problem comes when the association of ideas that could lead to a word being regarded as offensive has come entirely out of the mind of the person offended. Why should a perfectly good word without any negative associations become out of bounds because someone can invent a false history for it?

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                              QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                              But if I'm knackered I'm knackered aren't I? I think you'll find that most of England have no idea about any Irish context of the word.

                              For arguments sake the word tinker is another one. It obviously refers to the old profession of tinkery and has been used to describe naughty children. Now it has also been used to describe travellers. "You little tinker" is still used all across England with no reference to travellers. Indeed both tinker and knacker are verbs as well.

                              Essentially does a small regionalisation of an otherwise perfectly sound word mean it becomes out of bounds? Perhaps we should look for other words in the English language that shouldn't be used because they are used as a derogatory term on the Pitcairn Islands? Perhaps they don't like the word 'duck'?

                              Maybe I'm in a majority but I'm a gay man who is not averse to using the word fag, faggy or faggot in the right context. Just as I use the word queer, bent etc. in the right setting. Just like if I use the word knacker, I'm either describing a bollock, being tired etc. Tis the variety of language.

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                                QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                You can use whatever word you like to describe yourself. I'm on less stable ground if I start calling you a faggot, however.

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                                  QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc

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                                    QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                    Great, that. I really should watch Louis CK, every clip I've seen of him I've enjoyed.

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                                      QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                      "You little tinker" is still used all across England with no reference to travellers.
                                      That use is exactly from travellers. It is used in the same way as you may say "you little rascal" but stronger. There was a phrase when I was younger of "you thieving Arab" which had the same intent.

                                      LW, we aren't talking about "duck" on the Pitcairn Islands. We are talking about "knacker" used in a country that we are now in more contact with than ever.

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                                        QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                        "I slept with the enemy for a year and a half"

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                                          QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                          He'll probably land a decent job in the Primera Division...

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                                            QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                            Or Argentina, if he doesn't want to change hemispheres. Don't know if he speaks English, but if he does, I could see MLS teams being interested.

                                            Speaking of La Liga, there is now a website and Twitter account called "Los Otros 18" (the other 18) that has quickly accumulated more than 13,000 followers.

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                                              QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                              I think that's now 12 of the 32 World Cup teams who have changed their manager.

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                                                QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                                May actually be 13:

                                                Scolari (Brazil)
                                                Van Gaal (Holland)
                                                Lamouchi (Cote d'Ivoire)
                                                Santos (Greece)
                                                Zaccheroni (Japan)
                                                Prandelli (Italy)
                                                Suarez (Honduras)
                                                Hitzfield (Switzerland)
                                                Keshi (Nigeria)
                                                Queiroz (Iran)
                                                Halilhodzic (Algeria)
                                                Hong (South Korea)
                                                Pinto (Costa Rica)

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                                                  QF4. The battle of the Caribbean

                                                  Reports that Pekerman is leaving Colombia, so it may be 14 (and one would think that they would look at Pinto if they haven't already been talking to him).

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