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    The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

    ...raises its evil head again.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-30333168.html

    #2
    The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

    The Sisters of Bon Secours.

    They sound like an AC/DC Tribute Band.

    I look forward to Frankie Belgrano's press conference explaining this one...

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      #3
      The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

      Duncan Gardner wrote: The Sisters of Bon Secours.

      They sound like an AC/DC Tribute Band.

      I look forward to Frankie Belgrano's press conference explaining this one...
      Can we have a lookup table translating young Gardner's picaresque soubriquets for the great and the good of "Oireland", begorrah (sic)?

      (Or is it like Private Eye, and we're expected to know them anyway - by osmosis as it were?)

      (Though I rather suspect he might be a "bit busy" at the moment - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-sacks-entire-board-of-vaticans-financial-watchdog-9494834.html)

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        #4
        The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

        It's so sad. Numbingly, unbearably sad: your whole body just reflexively sinks and tightens as you read about it. There's not much else to say. Take the worst thing imaginable, and then imagine something worse.

        I wonder what psychic somersaults are being performed in the convents right now. What depth of misanthropy or self-hatred must be needed to be able to pray this away as part of the global human sin-package?

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          #5
          The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

          Er, he's Argentinian. Hasn't the pall of white smoke appeared over Ilkley Moor yet?

          A glossary will follow shortly if it helps.

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            #6
            The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

            Duncan Gardner wrote: Er, he's Argentinian. Hasn't the pall of white smoke appeared over Ilkley Moor yet?

            A glossary will follow shortly if it helps.
            Yes. I know. I did get that one almost from the start, but would have expected Cardinal O'Richelieu (or whatever he's called) to be the one to make a statement on it.

            (And "Ilkley Moor"? I'm a Sheffield lad. We don't do anything nearly as cosmopolitan as "That Leeds" down here you know)

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              #7
              The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

              Guy Potger wrote:
              (And "Ilkley Moor"? I'm a Sheffield lad. We don't do anything nearly as cosmopolitan as "That Leeds" down here you know)
              I am unmoved by your petty territorial spats, Sir. Bickering over reclaiming Yarm makes the Irish disputes seem quite well reasoned.

              I say I say. My brother-in-law is moving to the hills near Sheffield to improve his sun tan.

              Penistone?

              Did I mention it was a nudist resort?

              And my sister-in-law has recommended an Aga Saga bodice ripper set on the Yorkshire- Durham borders.

              Middlebrow?

              No, Darlington

              (Actually, there is a grain of truth. My cousin who retired recently to the Giant's Causeway is moving to the mythical Spennymoor to be near her daughter)

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                #8
                The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                Catholic Church digs in its heels. Typical.

                Archbishop Martin urged “those responsible for running any of the mother and baby homes in Ireland, or any other person having information about mass graves, to give that information to the authorities.” He described details of what has emerged from Tuam over recent days as “sickening”.

                The Sisters of Bons Secours, who ran the Tuam home, said they welcomed “the recent Government announcement to initiate an investigation in an effort to establish the full truth of what happened.”

                Comment


                  #9
                  The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                  This has been talked about since the 1970s. The church already dug in its heels for forty years. Nothing will change without a wholesale change in its attitudes to women's rights, and I think we have reason to doubt that it is structurally capable of achieving that. In the meantime, each time one of its representatives comes out with an "every life is sacred" argument, the congregation should interject to remind him of the bodies in the septic tank.

                  In related news, I've today received an email, addressed to me personally (and to everyone else on the ex-pat electoral roll), from Christine Boutin, founder of the French Christian Democrat party, ex-minister, and scourge of unmarried mothers, aborters and homosexualists. She's asking for a donation of €4,500 to help cover "enormous" expenses incurred during the European elections, where (she informs me) she proudly "defended Life" and "stood up for the sanctity of every life", winning a valiant 0.83% of the votes cast. Has the catholic church abandoned her, or is it just skint?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                    In the meantime, each time one of its representatives comes out with an "every life is sacred" argument, the congregation should interject to remind him of the bodies in the septic tank.
                    Because those who state the argument of sanctity of life endorse the burying of babies in septic tanks? I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself.

                    To answer your last question, the RCC is not supposed to pay for political candidates.

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                      #11
                      The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                      This is just ... staggering. Actually, physically, walk to one side when hear the news, staggering.

                      700 babies killed at birth and dumped in a mass grave? In Ireland? In the 1970s? Really?

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                        #12
                        The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                        Staggering, horrifying and heartbreaking in the numbers involved. And invites the obvious questions about how many people knew. A 'few bad apples' defence can't fly that far.

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                          #13
                          The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                          Grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre, unprecedented.

                          Well maybe not the last one.

                          I imagine Eamon Casey (local bishop) knew, but was too busy shagging his secretary and stealing from the biscuit tin to care.

                          Mary-Lou McDonald will probably blame Brit collusion or something.

                          Can we expel them from Euro 16 as a punishment?

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                            #14
                            The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                            Don't think this thread merits the flippancy of your last point Dunc.

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                              #15
                              The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                              It didn't happen in the 1970s. Most of the corpses have been sitting in that septic tank since the 1920s and 1930s.

                              They weren't killed at birth either. They died very young from a variety of causes, everything from gastoenteritis to anaemia to meningitis to intestinal tuberculosis. The conditions in the home were disgusting and facilitated the quick spread of disease.

                              It's an appalling story in every conceivable way.

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                                #16
                                The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                .

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                                  #17
                                  The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                  OK then, maybe a three point deduction?

                                  I know, I'm a bad man.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                    Well, okay, sorry if I jumped at the wrong end of a stick, but even so, as you've said, there is no nice end to this story.

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                                      #19
                                      The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                      It doesn't really matter what decade they died in. It's just fucking horrific from beginning to end.

                                      A lot of media outlets here have been noticeably sluggish to pick up on the story.

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                                        #20
                                        The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                        Same thing here.

                                        A search of the New York Times turns up zilch.

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                                          #21
                                          The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                          Part of the reason for the sluggishness is that we simply don't know what happened. Indeed, we don't know if there are any bodies in the septic tank.

                                          Death records seem to indicate that children died in that place at a shockingly high rate; about one per fortnight. As SAW says, there is no indication at all that they were "killed at birth".

                                          They were buried in unmarked graves. Then, when the home closed and was demolished in the 1960s, the grave was dug up. Nobody is quite sure what happened to the corpses, but locals told a historian that they were moved to the septic tank; and two young boys apparently saw bones when part of the concrete crumbled at some point in the early 1970s.

                                          Everything else is basically conjecture at this point.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                            The only thing that isn't conjecture is that it was considered perfectly normal for unmarried women to be sent to a slave labour home for the crime of being pregnant. The Catholic church, from the powers in Rome on down, as well as Irish society, considered this to be perfectly normal practice.

                                            Three things need to happen. Firstly, the Vatican needs to state that this was official church policy at the time. Secondly, Irish society needs to stop externalising these things purely as the deeds of the church. Which leads on to point three: Ireland needs to reform politically and become a proper social democracy at a national level, so that the state can provide for its population instead of relying on volunteers within church organisations, charities and the like. The state must fund proper services staffed with professionally qualified employees who carry out their work with religious and political neutrality. I realise there is a greater chance of pigs flying.

                                            I often read that Ireland tops the rankings when it comes to giving to charity, but this is seriously misleading. The additional tax paid by people in better run countries than Ireland far outweighs what Irish persons give to charity. You can't have the Mercedes and then buy yourself a good conscience for a tenner a month.

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                                              #23
                                              The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                              Unbelievably horrific, repellent, disturbing.

                                              My mother was born illegitimate in a workhouse in Limerick in 1928, and the family were forever "shamed" and only allowed in the back/side door of the church.  I thought that was fucking medieval. 

                                              The locking up of "wayward" women went on in England, too, Single mothers were sectioned right up until the 50s; and treated badly in the NHS, (treated roughly before, during and after childbirth, pressured into giving up their babies) right into the 1970s.  Family planning clinics and many doctors treated single women who were sexually active like feckless slags until the late 70s, and withheld abortion or even contraception, seemingly to punish them. It seems unbelievable now.

                                              Sorry, I'm low on data, very angry and upset right now.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                                António Pulisão é um gênio wrote: Firstly, the Vatican needs to state that this was official church policy at the time. Secondly, Irish society needs to stop externalising these things purely as the deeds of the church.
                                                Well, I'm entirely with you on number two, but it runs a little contrary to number one.

                                                I always thought that - if there really were good reasons not to include Bethany House in the McAleese enquiry - then those poor people should have had an enquiry of their own. Because what that case (for those who don't know, a Protestant-run "Home" in Dublin, at which more than 220 children died in the same period, and many more were abused) shows is that it wasn't just the church, these were attitudes deeply embedded in Irish society at the time, regardless of denomination.

                                                To say that it was "official Vatican policy" to do this is wrong for two reasons. Firstly, it lets that society off the hook; "it was all the church's fault, not ours". It feels very late-'40s Germany. Secondly, given the way the principle of subsidiarity operates, there is very little possibility that there was anything constituting an official, church-wide policy at the time. There were a lot of people left to their own devices, with little appreciation of just how toxic a cultural/religious/political stew they were being left to them in; but the pattern was self-organising, not top-down.

                                                I don't disagree with much else.

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                                                  #25
                                                  The Dark Majesty Of The Catholic Church In Ireland

                                                  Some interesting posts, thanks to all. An utterly depressing story perpetrated by despicable people.

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