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    Well there's an awful lot of money being pumped into office blocks. It seems to be occupying most of our building industry. They certainly seem to be very busy, and no-one seems interested in building apartment blocks. The thing that seems to have confounded fine gael is that the market simply isn't building any houses, even in a time of exploding prices and massive built up demand. They seem fundamentally unaware that the point of being in power is to actually do things. It's not clear what exactly they do half the time.

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      The ideology of Thatcher’s Dead Arse prevents them lifting an invisible hand.
      Last edited by Lang Spoon; 28-05-2018, 22:55.

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        https://mobile.twitter.com/DaftLimmy...778496/video/1

        They men had a trade!
        Last edited by Lang Spoon; 28-05-2018, 23:09.

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          Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
          Ah come on. You do know that in those years we were borrowing 12% of GDP every year to cover the hole in our tax revenues. That's how we went bankrupt.

          And what is happening now is nothing like the celtic tiger, because instead of us building 80,000 houses a year, we're building less than 8,000. Instead of Banks lending huge amounts of money, most purchases are either for cash or mostly for cash. It's a completely different thing.
          It wouldn't have cost any budget money to keep house prices affordable. It doesn't cost money to keep lending rules tight. In fact, they did the opposite. They actually found money to spend on a help to buy scheme, which is money that should be spent on public housing that they've handed straight over to the banks. Because all the first time buyers do is use the money to outbid each other and end up buying the same fucking house than if there was no help to buy scheme. Everybody knows that. But they don't care. Even Labour were offering 6k towards first time buyers in their 2015 manifesto.

          Proper urban planning and zoning laws also don't cost money. There should be no more semi-d houses in Dublin. Zero. Some kind of integrated plan for the city could have been formulated. You know, vision and leadership.

          The Celtic Tiger was almost completely dead. Blown to bits like something out of Star Wars. In 2011, nobody in Ireland was interested in making money off a house ever again. People were ready to become like continental Europe. Yet the cunts are trying to build yet another fucking Death Star.

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            Ah now, the lending rules are completely different. There is a strict 3.5 times the household salary without overtime, so if you have a joint household income of €80,000 you can borrow €280.000, but you also need a fairly substantial deposit. They're also not keen on including rental income from another property. If these rules were in place from 1995, things would have looked very different. And something like a help to buy scheme was explicitly designed to make it more attractive to builders to build homes for first time buyers. It didn't cost a lot of money, or impact the price of houses, because it basically didn't work. The number of new houses built remained ridiculously small. The thing is that a scheme like this isn't good or bad by itself. It's not an inappropriate thing to do if you're specifically trying to make it more attractive to builders to build houses for first time buyers. The trick is to stop doing it once you've got this going, or if it simply doesn't work.

            And the thing that was happening in 2011 was that people who had cashed out of the property bubble before 2008, were hoovering up property left right and centre. There were a lot of people with problematic buy to let mortgages that wanted out. The Idea that Irish people ever stopped thinking about property as an asset is optimistic at best. Particularly when so many people were forced to thing about the asset value of their house, since they were in negative equity.
            Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 29-05-2018, 14:13.

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              Peadar Toibín will vote against the 12-week provision in the proposed legislation, so wouldn't appear to have long left in SF.

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                And the thing that was happening in 2011 was that people who had cashed out of the property bubble before 2008, were hoovering up property left right and centre.
                I don't know if there's research that backs that up, but it's a very logical theory. Spain has had the same- once it got a little bit out of the shit, the house prices started shooting up again. I wonder if your theory might apply there.

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                  The thing is that a scheme like this isn't good or bad by itself. It's not an inappropriate thing to do if you're specifically trying to make it more attractive to builders to build houses for first time buyers.
                  You throw money at any group of house buyers and it drives up prices in general. This has been shown time and time again all over the world.

                  That money could have instead been used to build social housing, which would have directly reduced the housing shortage without inflating prices.

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                    There's a report on Help to Buy here.

                    http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/201...t_Sept2017.pdf

                    Depending on how much "deadweight" you think there is, it either made the Exchequer money or lost them money. They suggest that having it go up to houses worth 500,000 there's likely some deadweight. That seems to be far too high to me. And it looks like going on too long- till the end of 2019. Does anybody in the government/bank have the power to terminate it?

                    Our Help To Buy has paid out £8.3bn in 5 years. It ought to have been terminated yonks ago, and is ridiculously payable on places up to £600,000.
                    Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 29-05-2018, 17:13.

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                      The mechanics of the UK and Irish schemes are different, as I think we discussed here when the Irish one was launched. Though you're not wrong on either point.

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                        Excel graphs in a professional analysis.

                        The shame.

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                          Must have employed top Unionist Kevin Hague for their report.

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                            Twitter tales from the Repeal campaign.

                            had a lady in Roscommon tell me in the sweetest Irish mammy voice possible “ah now I wouldn’t be into the murder myself, but best of luck to you all the same”

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                              MPs vote for an emergency debate tomorrow on NI abortion laws:

                              https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak...10802556223488

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                                Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                                Twitter tales from the Repeal campaign.

                                had a lady in Roscommon tell me in the sweetest Irish mammy voice possible “ah now I wouldn’t be into the murder myself, but best of luck to you all the same”
                                that's straight out of father ted

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                                  Meanwhile, David Drumm has been found guilty of defrauding the public and false accounting:

                                  http://www.thejournal.ie/david-drumm...44684-Jun2018/

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                                    Judging by the sentences his buddies got he'll be out before the dail legislates for abortion

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                                      Blasphemy referendum confirmed for October 1st.

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                                        Do you have to have a separate vote on the women’s life within the home bit?

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                                            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                            Do you have to have a separate vote on the women’s life within the home bit?
                                            Same day, but separate articles.

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                                              Not Irish, but Argentina's lower house has just voted (129-125) to relax abortion laws. Goes to the Senate next. President who is opposed has said he will sign if both houses vote for.

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                                                David Drumm gets 6 years for conspiracy to defraud,better than nothing I suppose

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                                                  now Sinn Fein are kicking off about Flegs in newry. They are giving out yards about people flying tricolours near the courthouse, saying its outside the agreements, and needs to come down (essentially because it feeds whataboutery) Newry apparently has a no flegs policy at the behest of the local supermarkets, who provide one sixth of the local jobs, and know that flegs of any type freak the fuck out of southern Cross-border shoppers.

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                                                    Two major Irish stories today - firstly, Drew Harris, the Deputy Chief Constable of the PSNI, is to become the next Garda Commissioner, and FF will back Michael D if he runs for a second term:

                                                    http://www.thejournal.ie/michael-d-h...93675-Jun2018/

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