Throwing your collection of programmes away

[Patrick Thistle]

Resurrecting this because I'm thinking of a project trying to get hold of a programme for a certain date every year I've been alive. PM me if you want to rehome some programmes.

[Patrick Thistle]

Unrelated to the previous post, but I spent a couple of hours tonight scanning programmes from some of the games I've been to in the past 25 years. Always a bit of a time capsule.

They used to print attendance league tables. When did that stop?

[Paul S]

Matchday programmes - the beginning of end? The EFL are to vote on whether producing a programme should be mandatory as they make such a loss on them:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/43959769

About 8 years ago all the money ran out at Grays Athletic and they completed that season in the conference and took demotion to the Isthmian league. During that last season the programme suddenly went from being a glossy edition with photo's to a paper / cardboard edition just ten pages long. It was cheaper and still gave me the information I wanted about who's playing, league table etc. Maybe this is the way forward: cheaper and smaller programmes rather than a £4 matchday "souvenir" programme.

[Kevin S]

I think you might be right Paul. I've just had a quick look at some old programmes from clubs in the Alliance (now the National) League.

[Kevin S]

The Barrow one clearly used the same cover page for all their home league matches that season. The Barnet one also basically did but has a little window to print/type/stamp the details of the fixture in. And they use only the club colour as well as black, rather than full colour.

Edit - apologies, I think the Barnet one reads Southern League Premier Division rather than Alliance.

[Paul S]

That Worcester City programme from 1983. Using the historical inflation calculator, that would now cost 67p today. How much is a Worcester city programme today? And they wonder why people have stopped buying them.

[Capybara]

Maybe this is the way forward: cheaper and smaller programmes rather than a £4 matchday "souvenir" programme.

I'd go along with that. I like to get a programme at each match I go to and save them but too many are really overblown. When my lot were relegated to the second division they cut down to something more modest - the previous programme had won awards and stuff - and in my view it was all the better for it. Then when we were promoted two seasons ago they stuck with it. On the other hand, I get the impression they are not much interested in doing the programme any more and might jump at the chance to save half a week's wages for a single player over the course of a season and scrap it altogether.

And while we're on this subject, does anyone know if there are rules in Germany about producing match programmes? I go there quite a lot and sometimes it's a real faff trying to find one. It seems as if some clubs only produce one because they have to. They also vary hugely in style and cost. For example, on my most recent visit I found the following:

Bremen: decent 'traditional' magazine format, widely available in newsagents, but barely promoted at the stadium itself. 2 euros.
Hannover: newspaper-style. Widely available and free but because of the format I doubt very many saw out the day.
Osnabrück: Small folded sheet covering two games. You'd probably throw it straight in recycling if it came through your door. Only available, as far as I could see, in the club shop. Free.

[Kevin S]

That Worcester City programme from 1983. Using the historical inflation calculator, that would now cost 67p today. How much is a Worcester city programme today? And they wonder why people have stopped buying them.

[longeared]

Carlisle tried the slimmed down programme a few seasons back - a quid for 16 pages (I think) of information relating to that day's match. It clearly didn't meet with whatever their expectations were for it as the following year they reverted to a standard edition.

Coventry and Rochdale have consistently produced good programmes in recent years and both have already said they'll carry on regardless of the vote. Suspect the clubs behind it are those where the programme has never been a priority - the likes of Bradford / Reading / Luton etc.

Some hoppers at my game last night also mentioned there is a side effect in that many EFL clubs get their programmes printed locally and there will be an impact on the local print company.

[Felicity, I guess so]

I started a database the other week to start trying to keep track of progs I have. partly cos late night ebaying sometimes means I buy ones I've already got...

Ms Felicity was helping out on keyboards (while I sat on the floor surrounded by the piles of 'matchday magazines') and created fields for opponents/score/competition and then 'comments.'

Most of the latter were blank, or just if I remembered I went on the away bus or with particular friends or relatives but one involved staying up all night after the memorable victory; getting pies and bridies straight from the oven at a local bakery-factory then getting the crack-of-dawn train back to Sunderland to invigilate an exam and finding myself sitting opposite Alan Cummings and Saffron Burrows, then very much an item. I could almost taste those pies. Which suggests the exercise may prove worthwhile.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Carlisle tried the slimmed down programme a few seasons back - a quid for 16 pages (I think) of information relating to that day's match. It clearly didn't meet with whatever their expectations were for it as the following year they reverted to a standard edition.

The feedback was that those who bought programmes preferred to pay extra for a 'proper' programme, so they reverted. I remember being the club being fairly open about it at the time that, either way, they weren't making much money on the programme so they weren't bothered.

Assumed programme sales are a staple of the type of "message board maths" equation that is popular on our board - that if the club lowered ticket prices more people would come, and they'd all buy a programme, a pint and a pie (and anything else beginning with p (actually that works twice on the beer front)) and the club would be better off overall.

[JVL]

And while we're on this subject, does anyone know if there are rules in Germany about producing match programmes?

That's something I've always found very different over here: there really isn't a big programme culture and there is nowhere near the level of interest in collecting them either. The vast majority of programmes tend to be binned or just left behind at the end of the match. Ticket stubs from games I've attended tend to sell pretty well on eBay but I rarely get bidders on the few German programmes that I put up there. Stuttgart's programme the other week was a glossy A4 job, given away free as you came through the turnstiles. I used to get a programme at Sandhausen matches but don't bother any more.

[Patrick Thistle]

I think the first club programmes to go will be secondary cup games (like the EFL Trophy) and cup replays, which I imagine are logistically tough to write and print.

I went to the Wales C game in March and the programme was virtual - they hadn't out instructions about how to download it with a QR code on. I'm not sure that's a money saver - the design costs will still be the same, and no chance to recoup money on sales.

[imp]

The Eintracht Frankfurt programme is also a big glossy brochure for €2, available at newsagents on the morning of the game as well as inside the stadium. An absolutely worthless, unreadable PR monstrosity that I think dads buy for their kids so they can cut out the pictures. Inevitably, the 'Fan Geht Vor' fanzine is a much, much better read, and often comes with DVDs, stickers and postcards. €1, but it costs more if there's a DVD included.

I was impressed that Brigg Town went to the trouble of producing a fairly decent effort when I was there in March. Though usually at that level there's the same club history in every edition that takes up three or four pages.

[Uros Predic]

I was impressed that Brigg Town went to the trouble of producing a fairly decent effort when I was there in March. Though usually at that level there's the same club history in every edition that takes up three or four pages.

A few years back I used to edit a programme at that level - and wrote about it in WSC. What I found is that you can make the best plans for an interesting programme, but its never as straight-forward as it looks. You're always at the mercy of what the opposition send you for one; you might get reams of information, you might get some out of date pen pics, or if a club are struggling you might get nothing. Similarly I tried an interview feature, but struggled to get players to commit to it. And the On This Day in History feature fell down for one match in mid February when it turned out we hadn't played a game on that date in any of the 20 years for which I had records. And of course - you are also subject to print a lot of programmes for nowt if the weather takes a turn - and then you have to decide whether they're worth redoing completely, or just sticking updated league tables into.

On the cost-effectiveness aspect, the club I was doing it for sold a season's worth of advertising in the programme to about 35 local businesses. At about £50 a pop, that's a decent wedge of cash to have ahead of the season when you tend to need it most - new kit, new equipment, ground refurbs and updates etc. Regardless of whether the programme sales broke even as the year went by (though given they were knocking them out on the Welfare Club's printer on the sly and pleading ignorance when it ran out of ink, I suspect it did) that cash was crucial when it came in.

[Ray de Galles]

EFL clubs vote to end compulsory matchday programme publication

[colchestersid]

EFL clubs vote to end compulsory matchday programme publication

Well that's very sad but hardly surprising. The last time a league club didn't issue a regular programme was back in the 1920s (although Accrington Stanley gave up just before they went bust in 1962) and clubs in Scotland have always been patchy over the years (four didn't issue last season). The answer surely would be for clubs to choose to "downsize" - bring it down to 16 pages or so and charge a couple of quid - many non league clubs manage to do this and break even on much smaller crowds.

I have to declare an interest as I have over 10,000 West Ham programmes going back to 1908 including every first team programme back to 1944. Many are on this site http://whu-programmes.co.uk/

As an aside I also collected a few years ago a programme for every club from their first game after I was born, 6th March 1967. Just opened the draw where I keep them to have a browse and I am drawn to the Oldham programme which is awkwardly large compared to the other 91. Among the gems: the Chairman describes Rhodesia (where the club would be touring that Summer) as being a "wonderful country" - a letter suggesting a supporters club should be organised by the club gets short shrift "The secretary is too busy trying to run a FOOTBALL club" - one article notes that the BBC had offered the league one million pounds to televise one live game every Thursday evening throughout the season (I had no idea this was proposed so early) - a history of the Miss Oldham Athletic beauty pageant (running since 1959!!). The real eye opener though was the identity of the chairman - three clues - he had a beard, was full of opinions and later became a rather controversial figure further south (and later still, further north) Even this week he is in the news again for all the wrong reasons. No prizes.

[Gangster Octopus]

Yeah, I was surprised when I read a compilation book of Foul magazine pieces how often his name crept up in places that I hadn't previously associated him with.

[Paul S]

Steve Earl football programmes closing down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44656118

[Patrick Thistle]

I'm sorting out my Dad's hoard.

We have a load of programmes, tickets, fanzines etc to get rid of, dating back to the 80s.

They are broadly as follows
Shrewsbury home and away
Wales
Wrexham
Misc clubs, mainly non league, lots of Telford
Fanzines & similar

These are free to anyone who wants to drive to Shrewsbury to pick them up. If your team has been shit enough to play Shrewsbury regularly there will be programmes galore from games with them.


Any takers?

[Capybara]

EFL clubs vote to end compulsory matchday programme publication

Middlesbrough have announced that they will only produce an online version from now on. They have been doing this for games post-lockdown but have now said that they will not resume a printed version. I'm surprised to be not as bothered about this as I thought I would be. The online ones can be downloaded so it helps with storage. I know Barnet only do an online version, but are any other League clubs online-only?

[longeared]

Wayne Rooney's Derby County recently said they're ending publication of the regular programme and replacing it with a monthly magazine. Stevenage were online only for the whole of last season.

[colchestersid]

Newcastle United and Manchester City were online only at the end of last season, several clubs in L1 and L2 likely to be online only this season or even stop altogether

[danielmak]

Steve Earl football programmes closing down:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44656118

I missed this post originally, but the story is interesting and I'm drawn to the photos. I started (but never finished) a project where I interviewed record store owners in the Chicago area. As anyone participating in this thread who goes to record shops knows, there seem to be three types of shops: (1) Spaces that are total mess, with records stacked randomly and alphabetized sections only partially used. (2) Spaces that are so neat and organized that records are easy to find but the shop just feels too sterile. (3) The shops that fit perfectly between these two: Nothing is piled up randomly but the shop feels inviting and communal.

The photos of the programme shop seem to fall into (1) even if the text claims that there is an organizational system. I am not a programme collector, but it seems like this business is going to fade either way given the posts above about programmes moving to digital platforms. But maybe a shop could survive in a city if programmes were part of the shop's focus, with books and other football memorabilia rounding out the shop's products.

[Felicity, I guess so]

There’s a shop in Newcastle that does that- loads of progs but a range of vintage and new memorabilia too. I have twice used it for last-minute birthday presents ‘Hello, what Forest stuff have you got...?’ and the holy grail of finding the birth date programme of the person whose 40th it is.