Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

[Guy Profumo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2553554/Strong-UK-needs-Scotland-says-Cameron-PM-says-result-air-calls-people-urge-friends-family-vote-No.html

I've got relatives in Scotland.

I must text them to urge them to vote then!

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Dear Scotland,

A "Yes" vote is going to make David Cameron very upset.

Please think about that when you go to the polls.

[Paul S]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

I don't think David Cameron has any idea just how bad is image actually is!

[Toby Gymshorts]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

If the thought of Cameron continuing to blight their lives isn't enough to encourage the Scots to vote 'yes', then there's no hope.

[Guy Profumo]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

It appears [strike]Baldrick's[/strike] Cameron's cunning plan to secure a "no" vote is to go around scratching women.

Or something.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10624557/Sketch-Och-aye-the-No.html

Beneath the surface, he concluded, the British felt pride for the UK. “Scratch an Englishman,” he said, “scratch a Welshman, scratch a Northern Irishman…” There was an uneasy pause. “Or woman!” he added, hastily.

Much as I appreciate Mr Cameron’s keenness not to appear sexist, I’m not sure that “scratching women” is the way forward for the No campaign. For one thing, my mother is a Northern Irishwoman who lives in Scotland, and I don’t think she’d welcome the Prime Minister’s initiative

[Slightly Brown]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

I last time I heard the "elite" being lambasted was when Sarah Palin was soiling American politics with her mama-bear, gum-cracking, dinosaur-slapping shtick.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10622107/Alex-Salmond-Ignore-the-elite-in-independence-referendum-debate.html

#scaremongering

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

"Pope Francis yesterday warned that all of Scotland’s Catholics would be excommunicated in one fell swoop in the event of independence in line with the Bible. God will also strike the country down with plagues of blood, locusts, frogs, lice, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, darkness and the slaying of the firstborn should the Scots vote yes.

In further developments, the BBC will host a six week science special with Dara Ó Briain, Brian Cox and the reanimated corpse of Gerhard Mercator with scientific proof that in the event of independence, the country’s border will dissolve and tectonic processes will drag the country to sub Saharan Africa where the economy will collapse to Burundian and Malian levels."

I’m not a nationalist, I can’t vote in the independence referendum living abroad and I trust Alex Salmond as far as I could throw him. However, if I was a voter I would be beginning to get heartily sick of the union argument. It’s just relentlessly negative- threat, threat, threat, intimidation, intimidation, intimidation, Scotland on the naughty step and in the head’s bad books. We had George fucking Osborne come up last week- you can’t have the pound. Despite the Chancellor of the Exchequer apparently not realizing that the pound is partially Scottish property and denying the use of it would free Scotland obligation of paying its share of UK national debt. Today we have Barosso of the EU today threatening expulsion and refusal of entry to the big Euro party. Now sit down Scotland, shut up and open your textbook

Funnily enough, the whole “debate” reminds me on a larger scale of the threats, fire, brimstone and Sodom/Gommorah type annihilation which awaited Scottish football should Rangers have not been accepted straight back into the SPL.

Fuck it, I would vote yes just to piss Tories and EU technocrats off.

[E10 Rifle]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

I'm not Scottish, but it's hard to disagree with a single word of that. The "no" campaign, it seems to me, has combined the worst elements of both sides in the wretchedly dismal electoral reform referendum of 2011.

But Salmond should stop trying to face both ways, and just say 'fuck the queen, fuck the pound, we'll try going it our own way', but then he's not the sort of politician to do that.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Surely cameron's interventions are going to bring about a no vote in this referendum. his recent "My family come from scotland, we used to own a lot of you in the recent past" speech will go down in history as the moment that swung it in favour of the UK.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Fuck it, I would vote yes just to piss Tories and EU technocrats off.

The technocrats are a red herring.

They answer to the heads of government. You think Merkel and all are sitting there thinking "Shit, that Barroso bloke keeps saying stuff I don't like. And I can't do anything about it! Someone should have thought of that!"

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: Surely cameron's interventions are going to bring about a no vote in this referendum. his recent "My family come from scotland, we used to own a lot of you in the recent past" speech will go down in history as the moment that swung it in favour of the UK.

The speech done from the Olympic Park in London?

[Borracho]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Osborne is engaging in juvenile pettiness. If Scotland were to be excluded from sterling, it still has more than enough oil and natural resources to be able to easily stand on its own two feet economically.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The SNP seem well enough liked in the Scottish Government, but the bigger stuff which should be the whole point looks very shaky and nervous.

They didn't seem to realise that their implications would have any implications in other countries. Anyone could have that other countries had separatists, in Spain and Italy's cases, the richest parts of their countries. The SNP looked very surprised when Rajoy piped up.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Selected Ambient Works 85-92 wrote: Osborne is engaging in juvenile pettiness. If Scotland were to be excluded from sterling, it still has more than enough oil and natural resources to be able to easily stand on its own two feet economically.

If that's the case, why does he want a currency union? Surely the whole point of independence is having your own monetary policy? Currency unions are for countries who want to move closer together.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The speech done from the Olympic Park in London?

well any of them really. Cameron seems unaware that the sight of an english tory is enough to make most scots want to raze york to the ground

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

If that's the case, why does he want a currency union? Surely the whole point of independence is having your own monetary policy? Currency unions are for countries who want to move closer together.

currency unions are for countries on the same island with a lot of common trade. The Punt and Sterling were convertible up until 1979

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: The speech done from the Olympic Park in London?

well any of them really. Cameron seems unaware that the sight of an english tory is enough to make most scots want to raze york to the ground

You overlook figures like Michael Gove and Douglas Murray.

[Slightly Brown]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Surely the burden lies with the SNP. The union campaign is creating reasonable doubt. If I was starting a new country I'd have an answer to every worse-case scenario. "Negative, negative, negative" -damn right. But then I'd have an answer more substantial than "bluff, bluster and bullying". I'd hang my politics on something a bit more profound than alliteration, for fuq's sake.

Still, good to see Panama getting a shout out.

[anton pulisov]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Barosso saying that it would not be possible for an independent Scotland do remain in the EU without first re-applying for membership.

Hmmm, well, private banks also aren't allowed to be bailed out with government and EU money, but that didn't stop the fuckers from doing just that.

currency unions are for countries on the same island with a lot of common trade. The Punt and Sterling were convertible up until 1979

Indeed, and until 2002 you could use British 50p coins in most shops in Ireland and nobody would care.

However, a major problem with the Scottish independence campaign is that every time Ireland is used as an example of anything at all, the letters I, M and F are easily featured in any retort. Of course, an independent Scotland would be much more successful than Ireland was, because their political system wouldn't be based on the ashes of a guerilla campaign and civil war.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: currency unions are for countries on the same island with a lot of common trade. The Punt and Sterling were convertible up until 1979

Yes, Ireland pegged the punt to the British pound but that's not the same thing. Although it's an option for an independent Scotland.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Hmmm, well, private banks also aren't allowed to be bailed out with government and EU money, but that didn't stop the fuckers from doing just that.

Yeah, but enough of the member state governments wanted it to happen, so they found a way.

Where's the interest for the nation states' governments to make it easy for bits of them to break away?

I can't believe the SNP haven't put this issue to bed yonks ago.

[My Name Is Ian]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

I've been keeping a keen eye on this debate. From the outset, I started from the point of view - for what it's worth, as I obviously haven't got a vote - that I would be pro-independence, and I certainly think that the pro-independence movement would surely never get a better chance of a "Yes" vote than four and a half years into this government, of all people.

Having said that, though, the pro-independence response to this week's stories has been really, really weak. The "no" to currency union standpoint confirmed last week is surely no great surprise but, to be honest, the SNP's response to it was lame.

Barroso's comments on Scottish EU membership aren't that much of a surprise, but the comments under the Guardian's article on the subject seem to indicate that the argument will just be more complaining about bullying.

I can't see British government going for currency union. It wouldn't necessarily be in the rest of Britain's best interests, and Scotland's best interests cease to be Westminster's responsibility if there is a "Yes" vote in September. On joining the EU, as Tubby says above, there seems to be a lack of understanding on the part of the pro-independence movement of the potential ramifications beyond the North Sea.

Ultimately, SB is right. They have to have an answer to this sort of question that goes beyond this sort of accusation, and I'm not even certain that it's merely "negative" campaigning to point these things out. The harsh truth - and it's not one that I like, but it doesn't make it any less true - is these conversations are reflective of what any post-"Yes" vote will most likely look like.

Overall, though, the level of "debate" that I've seen on the subject has been dreadful, though, from both sides. The maturity level of a sixth form common room on the last day of term. It only increases the dread that I feel over any forthcoming EU referendum vote in this country.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

The Cybernats on the Guardian are very tedious.

When the IFS pointed out that Scotland didn't have very favourable demographics, they piled in with the usual "it's a plot" stuff.

Belatedly one of them said "Well we need to fix that then. Let's have a much less restrictive immigration policy than the UK has now".

But crike, he was in a pretty small minority in engaging properly.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

John Swinney completely misreprenting Barosso there. He didn't compare Scotland to Kosovo.

Crike, I know Barosso was a neo-con pal of Bush, but he looks too classy for the SNP.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Scottish independence campaign gets fillip

Having said that, though, the pro-independence response to this week's stories has been really, really weak. The "no" to currency union standpoint confirmed last week is surely no great surprise but, to be honest, the SNP's response to it was lame.

well, it kind of has to be a bit of a surprise. it's an insane hollow threat. the Irish and the english currency peg didn't cost england anything, facilitated trade and we'd just fought a particularly violent 3 year war of independence and humiliated the british empire to boot, giving it's first setback in 150 years. it even survived a 6 year economic war.

If scotland has a different currency to the rest of the uk, they just have to set their currency a little lower, and they'll destroy retail within 100 miles of the border.

it's not as though scotland isn't already printing entirely different sterling notes which aren't acceptable in england already