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Yassir, was he poisoned?

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    #51
    To show you are above having to care about being found out.

    I wonder if they'd have been more cautious if the POTUS had not been this one?

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      #52
      https://twitter.com/BBCMonitoring/status/973914941630578688

      Will they take their money somewhere else?

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        #53
        I think a major part of doing this is to hammer home to the UK just how isolated they are. There was an article in the Guardian yesterday, and it was full of German politicians saying that the people in a position to strike the hardest blow against Russia are the UK, so it will be interesting to see how they respond. Essentially it was "we'll go a certain distance of the road with you, but it's up to you to do something about this."

        The UK govt has to be shitting themselves over just how little support they are getting.

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          #54
          Yes. I wonder, from a practical standpoint, whether it really is worth making all this fuss about. Russia shouldn't be able to poison people in the UK, and the daughter is probably an innocent party, but one wonders what our own spies and agents get up to (we've all seen the films!), and whether can it be proven beyond doubt that the Russian state were involved. Probably attempting the murder of two of our citizens may not be enough for all the shit that's going to follow.

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            #55
            Well even in 2006 European govts were supportive right up to the point just before taking action against Russia so what are the odds now?

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              #56
              I think the point is that the UK has it in its power to take real action and you can understand the reticence of everyone else until such time as they show any inclination to do so

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                #57
                In 2006 European Govts were supportive right up until the point that it became clear that the UK were going to do nothing, other than pretend it didnt happen. The EU govts were supportive during the Crimea until the UK made clear that it was going to oppose anything approaching serious sanctionis, even after the Russians shot down a Dutch Airliner. And now that the UK seems interested in making some squawking noises, while doing nothing in practice your govt will get the support

                The problem is ultimately this. Russia is a gangster state, run by gangsters, for the benefit of the Gangsters. The UK's response to this at all times has been to try and get more of the gangsters to move to london and spend their gangster money, on Property, on football clubs, and on the Fucking Evening Standard, oh and on donating to the Tory Party and Brexit. The Eu's attitude to Putin is very different to that of the member states. The EU sees Putin as a long term threat, a gangster whose aim is to break up the EU at every opportunity, and to undermine liberal democracy. The ability of the EU to do anything about anything has always been hampered by britain's status as Catamite State, desperately trying to keep up appearances by doing anything the actual big powers want. Want to hear the US govts voice in the room, listen to the English. Who is in there representing the interests of Chinese, or the Russians? But ultimately this is what happens when you to a large degree build your economy around laundering offshore money, and selling houses for a lot of money.

                Europe would look quite different now if the EU had brought the Hammer down hard and heavy on Putin allies in Europe in 2006. Unfortunately it's britain holding the hammer. and if George osborne Is doing things like this, then what hope that anything is going to happen? I've also got to say that I don't believe this story. £50,000 would have got you a handshake with Bertie ahern, and five minutes of chat about sport. There's no fucking way that Osborne met him four times and walked away with so little.
                Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 14-03-2018, 17:02.

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                  #58
                  To be fair, Germany has also been a foot-dragger on Russia, given its fear that the gas would get turned off. Doesn't excuse the UK's timidity, though — it's ridiculous it took this attack to prompt a review of those 14 other suspicious deaths (or, you know, most of Skripal's immediate family).
                  Last edited by Ginger Yellow; 14-03-2018, 17:23.

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                    #59
                    Aside from the fear about natural gas, I would be taking a very fucking long hard look at Gerhard Schroder, and the people around him.

                    Germany is in a completely different position to the UK with respect to Russia, because Germany actually trades a large amount of stuff with them. There are a lot of people in Germany who would like sanctions to go away for normal economic reasons. But it also means that Germany is the country bearing much of the economic brunt of the current sanctions as they currently exist. I don't see what the UK gets out of Russian oligarch money. It strikes me as something the UK could definitely live without.

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                      #60
                      I don't see what the UK gets out of Russian oligarch money.
                      It gets your party's terrible chancellor appointed editor of the Standard. It's also great for lawyers and bankers, which are the primary constituency for Tory party policy, or were before they had to counter UKIP. They were also pretty important for Labour pre-Corbyn.

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                        #61
                        Don't forget high end estate agents, event planners and PR types, not to mention fee-paying schools.

                        They are a meaningful factor in the London luxury economy.

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                          #62
                          Yes, yes I know about all that. The thing is that it doesn't really add up to a lot of money in the scheme of things. I get that it runs the risk of costing a relatively tiny but well connected section of the UK population rather a lot of money, but otherwise it would be effectively costless. And the onus should really be on them to explain how throwing expensive parties and buying houses allows your govt to carry out as many public acts of war as it likes. The German-Russian trade flows are a hell of a lot bigger, but they're still nearer the front of the queue than the UK.

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                            #63
                            It's never about the bigger picture.

                            It's always about party finances and the circles in which senior pols circulate. See the Democrats and the Carried Interest loophole, among myriad other examples.

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                              #64
                              Thanks for sharing that, it is interesting. The agent used was apparently disclosed by a 90s whistleblower who now lives in the US, it's not unique to the USSR or Russia.

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                                #65
                                Again yes, but it goes a long way to explaining why UK has so few friends on this issue. Their last finance minister is being paid €750,000 a year by an oligarch. for one day a week running a newspaper. That's not subtle.

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                                  #66
                                  Of course.

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                                    #67
                                    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...-to-judgement/

                                    Thought this was quite interesting.

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                                      #69
                                      That's an excellent piece.

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                                        #70
                                        Notable that this is from Huckabee Sanders rather than her boss, and in a format that avoids any follow up

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                                          #71
                                          Is she going to get fired for this?

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                                            #72
                                            Nah.

                                            They've used this tactic before

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                                              #73
                                              Ten days late Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland has issued the Canadian government’s first (and very brief) official statement condemning the attack and offering its “complete support” to the UK... but not really all that overwhelmingly.

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                                                #74
                                                NATO is struggling to give a collective fuck.

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                                                  #75
                                                  I found this an interesting read, not just for the reasonably well-known back-story of Russia in the 90s (and the political stupidities of that era), but for some of the stuff about the involvement of the UK far right

                                                  Is this still the thread for the Sergei and Yulia Skripal case? Do people still care about them? Or is the far more pressing business of who's got their metaphorical cock-out in the UK parliament now the main issue?

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