PRISM

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

So what do we make of The Guardian's revel......[strike]This comment has been extraordinarily rendered, waterboarded, interrogated against the Geneva convention and currently resides in a maximum security digital compound for the rest of its natural life under the auspices of the United States of America.

All responses on this thread will also be subject to the same fate. To protect freedom.
[/strike]

[ad hoc]

PRISM

What the Securitate and the Stasi would have given to have the methods that the CIA have.

[Anton Gramscescu]

PRISM

I dunno. part of the brilliance of the Securitate MO was that it left you not knowing who to trust and so you'd self-censor. Not telling people you're watching them robs you of that part of the equation.

One thing that doesn't quite ring true to me about this PRISM thing is that it allegedly has an annual budget of 20M. That's nothing. I don't see how it can actually be as all-encompassing as some of these reports seem to claim it is if it only costs that much. Heck in canada we spent a billion dollars on a firearms database and it never worked properly.

[Keyzer]

PRISM

The biggest suprise? That people are surprised. The security agencies of the States are home to some of the most morally evil, manipulative and duplicitous people in the world all working at the behest of an ostensibly benign but actually imperialistic government that sends drones to kill whoever it wants and thinks nothing of spying on its own citizens.

PRISM thing is that it allegedly has an annual budget of 20M.

That's the budget that's been disclosed. I would want to take a very close look at the figures involved. Then again, after taking a look at the screengrabs of the system available on the Guardian site, it kind of makes sense. The thing looks like a Geocities site circa 2001.

Bollocks, those aren't actual screengrabs. That'll teach me to post before my morning coffee!

[Wouter D]

PRISM

Keyzer wrote: The biggest suprise? That people are surprised.

This. This morning the Dutch news opened with this item, and my instant gut reaction was: "How is this news?"

[Antepli Ejderha]

PRISM

Spread to GCHQ as well.

Not surprised sadly. I wonder if the cunts are getting all of the stuff on here?

[Gerontophile]

PRISM

Do what I do, on here: lie your ass off.

(I am really a 25 year old lesbian nurse from Kentucky.)

[Amor de Cosmos]

PRISM

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution

Surely basic honesty requires repeal, or multiple prosecutions.

[Bored Of Education]

PRISM

Seriously, PRISM? That makes SMERSH look believable.

[Cal Alamein]

PRISM

Well said Keyzer.

Amor, the 4th amendment has been hanging on by a thread since 9/11.

There will be weak "harrumphs" from the repukes, but this is not at all news if the mainstream media chooses to report it.

Robinson Cannot/Willie Randolph/25 yr. old bizarre Kentuckinan -- I freakin' knew it!

[Amor de Cosmos]

PRISM

Yes, I know. But for sheer blatancy, not to mention the order of magnitude, this is jawdropping. I hate playing the "if-this-was-sixties-man" card, but if it was there'd be fucking demos from one coast to the other. How have Americans let things get this bad, where is it going to end?

And... Obama... what the fuck!

[Cal Alamein]

PRISM

Totally agree w/ your sentiment.

I've no idea to think exactly what event, outrage, or the like would create demos from one coast to another. I know that is a sad statement, but we are such a polarized and sectionalized nation that what gets 1000s worked up in Portland will sure as hell not do the same in Birmingham.

As long as the nation's internet, wi-fi and 4G networks are open you'll have a sedated public. Hey, maybe the lack of THAT would rattle cages nationwide?

[San Bernardhinault]

PRISM

Us Brits were never protected by the fourth amendment, so I think we (certainly I) always suspected that all our communications were open to being spied on by the US government. Which will, I think, explain part of the collective shrug of the shoulders the rest of the world will give whilst US citizens who still believe in the sanctity of the constitution are going to be freaking out.

This, along with the IRS stuff, is really going to help those who want to curtail the powers of the US government.

And that would be a very good thing, if only the entire world didn't conflate the powers of the government with the expenditure of the government. You really can tax more and spend more on public services without it necessarily meaning you're going to read the emails of your political opponents.

[willie1foot]

PRISM

Robinson Cannot wrote: Do what I do, on here: lie your ass off.

(I am really a 25 year old lesbian nurse from Kentucky.)

The biggest surprise? That people are surprised.

[garcia]

PRISM

maybe you kind of suspected something like this was going on, but suspected is different from assumed. obama's response seems to have been to try to minimise it by acting surprised that anyone would have an issue with it. it's pretty disgusting. i mean... fuck off obama. just... fuck off. the lesson here is to stop getting excited about what happens in US elections. red, blue, whatever the fuck, it really makes no difference. the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government. the only thing that would be different if john mccain had won the election in 2008 is that the white house correspondents' dinner would have been slightly more embarrassing than it already is.

part of the brilliance of the Securitate MO was that it left you not knowing who to trust and so you'd self-censor. Not telling people you're watching them robs you of that part of the equation.

this is a good point, but i think what happens in a system like ours where you're being watched all the time is that people quickly forget they're being watched and begin to behave naturally. all except the people they're supposedly looking for, who will hide because they know they have to.

[Brandenburger Toro]

PRISM

the lesson here is to stop getting excited about what happens in US elections. red, blue, whatever the fuck, it really makes no difference. the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government. the only thing that would be different if john mccain had won the election in 2008 is that the white house correspondents' dinner would have been slightly more embarrassing than it already is.

Horseshit.

[Cal Alamein]

PRISM

Brandenburger Toro wrote:

the lesson here is to stop getting excited about what happens in US elections. red, blue, whatever the fuck, it really makes no difference. the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government. the only thing that would be different if john mccain had won the election in 2008 is that the white house correspondents' dinner would have been slightly more embarrassing than it already is.

Horseshit.

Horseshit indeed.

However for the most part, yes, fuck off Obama. His second term has gone nowhere and doesn't appear to be 'going forward' any damned time soon.

But while I appreciate what you say about "the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government" a McCain or Romney presidency would be far shittier.

[Amor de Cosmos]

PRISM

As long as the nation's internet, wi-fi and 4G networks are open you'll have a sedated public. Hey, maybe the lack of THAT would rattle cages nationwide?

It's true, in world where the concept of privacy has voluntarily been dispensed with, why would the idea of constant government monitoring seem outrageous? But in that case just repeal the amendment and stop the self deception.

On second thoughts, living with lies doesn't seem to worry people unduly either.

[linus]

PRISM

Cal Alamein wrote:

the lesson here is to stop getting excited about what happens in US elections. red, blue, whatever the fuck, it really makes no difference. the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government. the only thing that would be different if john mccain had won the election in 2008 is that the white house correspondents' dinner would have been slightly more embarrassing than it already is.

Horseshit.

Horseshit indeed.

However for the most part, yes, fuck off Obama. His second term has gone nowhere and doesn't appear to be 'going forward' any damned time soon.

But while I appreciate what you say about "the elected part of the government has very little to do with the governing part of the government" a McCain or Romney presidency would be far shittier.

I agree about Romney, who is a total moron, but McCain might have had some upside on many subjects related to human rights, having himself been subjected to torture in Vietnam. With some retrospect, I think McCain would have been a better president and leader than Obama on many matters including foreign policy (especially wrt Syria).

[Anton Gramscescu]

PRISM

You're pro-intervention, linus?

Anyways, seems initial reports may have overstated the nature of PRISM. Be interested to see how this plays out.

[linus]

PRISM

Yes, absolutely, AG, or at least a strong military support of the rebels. The Assad regime would not hesitate to kill millions of citizens and destroy most of Syria in order to stay in power.

[Cal Alamein]

PRISM

Can't agree Linus. McCain sold his soul and mavericky independence to the hard, hard right and he would have creeps from the Reagan and Bush administrations to continue to fuck up this country.

McCain and fellow drama queen Lindsey Graham would have us all over the damned world if we followed their fears.

And good god, the idea of dipshit Palin as VP just sends scared-as-shit shivers all up and down my body

[Brandenburger Toro]

PRISM

linus wrote: I agree about Romney, who is a total moron, but McCain might have had some upside on many subjects related to human rights, having himself been subjected to torture in Vietnam. With some retrospect, I think McCain would have been a better president and leader than Obama on many matters including foreign policy (especially wrt Syria).

Congratulations, Linus. Even on a thread where garcia had out-Ton Ton-ed Ton Ton in terms of blinkered, ill-thought-out "everyone to the right of me is as bad as each other, why didn't I get my pony?" histrionics, you have made the single most ludicrous post I have ever read on this board.

May God have mercy on your soul.

[Stumpy Pepys]

PRISM

Just got around to reading this thread.

With the exception of AG, this is just the typical one-eyed, knee-jerk response that's synonymous with the web.

If the US government had a back-door to Facebook, Google and so on, then I'd be similarly outraged. Except it's not apparent (and pretty unlikely) that they have.

There is an important debate to be had on this subject, but I don't think this is the smoking gun you think it is.

[Nefertiti2]

PRISM

"collection direct from the servers of these US service providers..."