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Thread: Bitcoin

  1. #51
    Wouter D's Avatar
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    Reed John wrote: What WOM said, and I fail to see how iTunes is a grueling horror. No worse than any of the other sites like that I've experienced.
    False binary. You don't have to use "any of the other sites like that" to maintain a music collection and use an MP3 player.

    For me, the big problem with iTunes is that it takes control over how I organize my music in places where I want to keep that control myself. I'm fairly sure that this is not a problem for many people, but for me it is. Rearranging my music folder is a definite no-no.

    WOM wrote: The complaints that most people have are fairly advanced ones.
    You make a few good points here. I want to single this one out. The remark that started off this exchange was Bryaniek's:

    Bryaniek wrote: I also considered investing in Apple about 10-12 years ago but figured that nobody would buy an iPod because it was (and still is, mind) a shit product.
    I guess that, pre-iPod-success, I would have severely overestimated the proportion of people finding these fairly advanced complaints a dealbreaker. Then you arrive at the conclusion that nobody would want to buy an iPod.

  2. #52
    anton pulisov's Avatar
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    The iPod was also very successful because the competition did nothing. Pre-iPod, Sony had without doubt the strongest brand name in portable music players and, indeed, their MP3 players were technically far superior than Apple's. With all the stuff they had on Sony Music, they also had the facilities to launch their own version of iTunes and make a killing in digital downloads.

    But Sony bigwigs saw MP3 as the enemy of the music industry and never developed a digital download shop. And for years you could only put music onto a Sony MP3 player by using the god awful "Sonic Stage" software which first converted all your MP3s into Sony's propietry ATRAC format. This took forever. Essentially, at the start of the MP3 revolution, Sony MP3 players refused to play MP3 files. Idiots.

    Years later they finally opened up their Sony MP3 players and made them even more user friendly to use than the Apple ones, but by then hundreds of millions of iPods had been sold and it was too late.

  3. #53
    ad hoc's Avatar
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    Reed John wrote: In what Universe is an iPod a shit product? It plays music without CDs. It was a huge advance. Other companies made similar, maybe even better devices, but didn't have the iTunes set-up.
    The payoff of this argument is so baffling I have to go and lie down. I mean I agree with every part of it, but why anyone would find iTunes to be the deal-maker, when iTunes is quite clearly the shit you have to take in order to get on the iPod bandwagon is beyond me.

    God knows why people got stressed about Apple Maps or whatever it was called - quite clearly Apple had already set a massively high standard for failed awful unworkable software when they launched iTunes. It is, by far, the worst piece of software I have ever owned, and I've had pretty much every version of Windows, including Vista, and those very old versions of iOS in the mid 90s, and any number of failed apps and bits of freeware.

  4. #54
    ad hoc's Avatar
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    Anyway, back to Bitcoin...

  5. #55

    I ought to report you to the Gnome Office
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    Of course, there was that bloke in Wales the other day, who threw away an old hard drive, forgetting it had 7,500 Bitcoin on it. (About 4m.)

    Ouch!

  6. #56
    WOM's Avatar
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    ad hoc wrote: God knows why people got stressed about Apple Maps or whatever it was called - quite clearly Apple had already set a massively high standard for failed awful unworkable software when they launched iTunes. It is, by far, the worst piece of software I have ever owned, and I've had pretty much every version of Windows, including Vista, and those very old versions of iOS in the mid 90s, and any number of failed apps and bits of freeware.
    I've said this before, but I have no idea what you want iTunes to do. It puts music on your player. It takes music off your player. It allows you to download purchased songs. It allows you to upload CDs or pilfered songs.

    What level of intricacy do most users need from a bit of music-management software?

  7. #57
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    I want it to be easy to use. I want it not to slow my computer to a crawl. I want to be able to NOT use it when connecting to my iPod. I want it to not demand a credict card from you even when you want to download podcasts only.

    But most of all I want it not to be a massive security risk, in which people can easily hack into your account and use your credit card to purchase things, and if that does happen (and obviously it does) most of all I want Apple to FUCKING acknowledge that this happens and to ignore any customer complaints of this nature and actually go round the internet deleting them to try and pretend that they Apple, and specifically it, iTunes are somehow secure. I have a letter from my bank which illustrates clearly that it is not.

  8. #58
    WOM's Avatar
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    Ah. Fortunately I haven't experienced any of that beyond "I want to be able to NOT use it".

    I don't not want to use it because it's where my music is. When I plug in my iPod, I assume it's because I want to manage my music somehow.

    The security thing seems a little frightening.

  9. #59

    Bitcoin

    I'm understanding why bitcoin is good for petty criminals, but I'm not seeing how it helps non-criminals or for society as a whole.

  10. #60

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    WOM wrote: Ah. Fortunately I haven't experienced any of that beyond "I want to be able to NOT use it".

    I don't not want to use it because it's where my music is. When I plug in my iPod, I assume it's because I want to manage my music somehow.

    The security thing seems a little frightening.
    I agree. I don't share Ad Hoc's disdain because I haven't had any of these troubles. You can set it to not kick in every time you plug in your iphone.

    More to my original point, from the get-go, the i-stuff appeared to be very popular and, despite it's limitations, the public at large appeared to be enamored with the whole thing. So I don't understand why anyone would have expected Apple to flop even if they deserved to.

    I had a Zen before I got my iPhone. I found it relatively easy to put my CDs onto it (albeit slow) but I didn't find that buying songs off the web for it was any easier than it is with iTunes. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but I just wanted to buy music and was willing to pay a reasonable price for it. I'm not interested in downloading stuff for free or understanding all kinds of technical mumbo jumbo. I like music. I don't especially like computers.

    I got the iPhone because, at the time I bought the first one, it had the most apps for it and it seemed like a safe bet that most developers would focus on that and I was already on ATT because there was never a compelling reason for me not to be. The competition hasn't died out as feared, so Droid et al seem like more viable options than they once did, but in the mean time, the company I used to work for said they'd only support blackberries or iPhones and most of the people I worked with had iPhones and they were paying the bill, so it made sense to keep with that. When I got a tablet, I figured it would be far simpler to have one on the same system - which it is - so I got an iPad. Now the possibility of switching to a different system on my next phone upgrade seems daunting and probably not worth the hassle of having to learn a whole new thing. So they've got me now. I know it. They know it. I know they know it and they know I know that they know it. But that's ok with me. I'm not going to waste my time and energy worrying if I have the "best" possible thing when what I have works well for me.

    Everything is amazing and everyone is miserable.

  11. #61
    WOM's Avatar
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    We have the same tablet discussions here, don't we? Why would you get an iPad when you could get a NexxJack 680 with a SMX port and a Pica-^ grapple flange that lets you export DTV files without using a housing router? And...AND...it's fucking $31 dollars cheaper than an iPad.

    Yoy...who fucking cares? 98% of the populace loves their Apple shit because it does everything they need it to do.

  12. #62

    Bitcoin

    Reed John wrote: I'm understanding why bitcoin is good for petty criminals, but I'm not seeing how it helps non-criminals or for society as a whole.
    It's like Tor isn't it. Dead useful if you live in a repressive regime.

    You could argue (and I will) that being able to buy drugs anonymously online was good for society because it opened up dealers to competition - there wasn't much value in ripping consumers off and the standard of product was safer and better.

  13. #63

    Bitcoin

    The first one makes sense, but I'm not sure about the second one. Are there a lot of online drug dealers now? It sounds like just the one, and it got busted.

    I can certainly understand how an untraceable money flow would help honest drug dealers. But, regardless of how the money flows, the physical drugs still have to move from producer, to supplier, to consumer and that brings with it all of the risks that it always did, which will suppress the number of people willing to get into that trade in any given area and create the same factors as always that cause that trade to be run by people willing to literally murder their competition.

  14. #64

    Bitcoin

    WOM wrote: We have the same tablet discussions here, don't we? Why would you get an iPad when you could get a NexxJack 680 with a SMX port and a Pica-^ grapple flange that lets you export DTV files without using a housing router? And...AND...it's fucking $31 dollars cheaper than an iPad.

    Yoy...who fucking cares? 98% of the populace loves their Apple shit because it does everything they need it to do.
    Yeah, that's pretty much it. I wish the iPhone and iPad ran Flash, but it's not a big deal, really.

    I can see how one of those Windows tablet thingies that has more of the functions of my work computer might be handy for work (since most of the world I work in still relies on Windows and Office) if my company wasn't already loaning me and supporting a laptop PC that runs all of that just fine and fits into a docking station in my home office. Between that and my iPad, I've got all the necessary bases more than well covered.

    Unfortunately, we don't have an Apple store here. Yet. But I don't see any of the other options offering better in-person help options.

    I suppose accepting the path of least resistance here means I'm the gadget-owner equivalent of somebody who thinks Coldplay and U2 are the greatest bands of all time, but I can say I'm doing it ironically so it's ok.

  15. #65
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    I'm not sure that Bitcoin is necessarily useful for people in "repressive" regimes per se, though it can be useful in regimes that impose capital controls or otherwise seek to crack down on money laundering. Indeed, that angle seems to be driving interest in China (where there are essentially no retail uses for Bitcoin).

    More detail in this post from Joe Weisenthal.

  16. #66
    WOM's Avatar
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    Reed John wrote: Unfortunately, we don't have an Apple store here. Yet. But I don't see any of the other options offering better in-person help options.
    Heh. I love that the new Kindle has a Mayday button. A fucking Mayday button. I'm having such trouble with this bit of kit that I have to yell Mayday and get live help to sort it out. What a fabulous statement about usability.

    Meanwhile, iPad ships without so much as an owner's manual and people sort it out in about three minutes.

  17. #67
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    WOM wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Reed John
    Unfortunately, we don't have an Apple store here. Yet. But I don't see any of the other options offering better in-person help options.
    Heh. I love that the new Kindle has a Mayday button. A fucking Mayday button. I'm having such trouble with this bit of kit that I have to yell Mayday and get live help to sort it out. What a fabulous statement about usability.
    I'm guessing that function is mostly for the olds.

  18. #68
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    WOM wrote: We have the same tablet discussions here, don't we? Why would you get an iPad when you could get a NexxJack 680 with a SMX port and a Pica-^ grapple flange that lets you export DTV files without using a housing router? And...AND...it's fucking $31 dollars cheaper than an iPad.
    Hmmm... that's some straw man you've set up there.

    The Google Nexus 7 32GB with 3G network costs $349 and runs Android. Android is pretty damn similar in ease of use to iOS and has been adopted by many smartphone users around the world. My mother uses Android on her Samsung phone.

    The equivalent Apple product is the iPad Mini 16 GB with 3G network which costs $429.

    So the Google tablet costs $80 less and you get twice as much memory, a better screen and faster chip.

    None of that is nerdy tech nitpicking, surely.

    I don't understand why anybody would want a tablet, but that's a different argument altogether.

  19. #69
    WOM's Avatar
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    It's nerdy nitpicking in the sense that 95% of users wouldn't notice the difference in the screen, the speed, or use anywhere near the memory.

    What they would notice is an operating system they understand and an ecosystem that works well together. (which isn't to say that the Android one doesn't, I hasten to add).

  20. #70
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    I didn't know why anyone would want a tablet until I spent a few evenings goofing around with one on the couch. Now I get it. For games and browsing and reading and overall portability, they're the business, daddio.

  21. #71

    Bitcoin

    That was my experience too.

    The Google Nexus does appear to be a better deal, but it didn't exist when I bought my iPad and I don't really trust/like Google anymore than Apple.

  22. #72
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    As always, it iTunes that's the deal breaker.
    Quite happy with an iPhone as you never have to use iTunes.
    But for a tab give me android any day.
    Drag and drop and an sd card slot so it doesn't cost 100 more for 10 worth of ram.

  23. #73
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    WOM wrote: It's nerdy nitpicking in the sense that 95% of users wouldn't notice the difference in the screen, the speed, or use anywhere near the memory.

    What they would notice is an operating system they understand and an ecosystem that works well together. (which isn't to say that the Android one doesn't, I hasten to add).
    They'd notice the $80 dollar price difference, surely.

  24. #74
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    Surely. But people pay a premium for things all the time, whether for beer or vacuums or cars. As a portion of the price on a product you likely intend to keep for 3 or 4 years, $80 isn't the end of the world. Especially on a discretionary purchase.

  25. #75
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    Adherents of the Church of Steve Jobs and the Latter Day White Goods don't worry about cost. It's all part of belonging.

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