Bish Bosch

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

Leon Tricker wrote: Keyzer called himself a fool. I just agreed with him for expecting Bish Bosch to be anything other than what it is.

My sincerest apologies, sir. I had no idea when obtaining a copy of the recent long-player from Noel 'Scott' Engel that I was not in fact purchasing a work of art featuring melodies, formal structure, lyrics that actually make sense and read well, wonderful playing and harmonious arrangements, but rather in fact buying something that featured absolutely none of those things but which I am a fool for not appreciating fully. You won't mind, I'm sure, if I check with you in future before buying anything? Just so that my evidently foolish expectation that it be in any way fucking good doesn't impede my enjoyment of it?
And whoever upthread said that you can find something new every time you listen to one of walker's recent 'records', I would imagine that if you leave some raw meat in the kitchen for long enough you'll find something 'new' every time you go back to it as well.

[Leon Tricker]

Bish Bosch

Keyzer wrote:

Keyzer called himself a fool. I just agreed with him for expecting Bish Bosch to be anything other than what it is.

My sincerest apologies, sir. I had no idea when obtaining a copy of the recent long-player from Noel 'Scott' Engel that I was not in fact purchasing a work of art featuring melodies, formal structure, lyrics that actually make sense and read well, wonderful playing and harmonious arrangements, but rather in fact buying something that featured absolutely none of those things but which I am a fool for not appreciating fully. You won't mind, I'm sure, if I check with you in future before buying anything? Just so that my evidently foolish expectation that it be in any way fucking good doesn't impede my enjoyment of it?
And whoever upthread said that you can find something new every time you listen to one of walker's recent 'records', I would imagine that if you leave some raw meat in the kitchen for long enough you'll find something 'new' every time you go back to it as well.

I didn't call you a fool for not liking Bish Bosch. I agreed with your own assessment of yourself of being foolish to expect Bish Bosch to be anything other than a continuation of Tilt and The Drift.

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

I would say I was naive, myself, in hoping that he'd gotten that rubbish out of his system.

[Gangster Octopus]

Bish Bosch

The Graun's Corrections and clarifications collumn wrote: A review (It's a scream, 30 November, page 22, Film & Music) of Scott Walker's latest album, Bish Bosch, referred to one of its tracks as SDSS14+3B (Zircon, A Flagpole Sitter). That should of course have been SDSS1416+13B (Zercon, A Flagpole Sitter).

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

Hahahah.
There's a wider discussion to be had here though, isn't there? I'm perfectly willing to accept that there may be some artistic merit in Walker's latter albums, even if the experiments only serve to warn other musicians 'Don't make music like this.' But if you are one of those people who sits down, presses play and then genuinely enjoys a record like this, what do you really, actually get out of it?

[Jimbags]

Bish Bosch

The good, new, different music in an art form that has gone all derivative and stale.

Maybe he should just start shouting out of tune over some idiot bashing the same three chords on every song, then he'd be a real genius.

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

Jimbags wrote: Maybe he should just start shouting out of tune over some idiot bashing the same three chords on every song, then he'd be a real genius.

You've effectively described Cossacks Are, there.

[Leon Tricker]

Bish Bosch

Gangster Octopus wrote:

A review (It's a scream, 30 November, page 22, Film & Music) of Scott Walker's latest album, Bish Bosch, referred to one of its tracks as SDSS14+3B (Zircon, A Flagpole Sitter). That should of course have been SDSS1416+13B (Zercon, A Flagpole Sitter).

That's hilarious! I hope the cheek of whoever wrote the correction is still suffering from internal bleeding!

[Leon Tricker]

Bish Bosch

Keyzer wrote:

Maybe he should just start shouting out of tune over some idiot bashing the same three chords on every song, then he'd be a real genius.

You've effectively described Cossacks Are, there.

Whether or not that describes Cossacks Are (and I don't think it does), the key words in Jimbags's post are surely 'every song'?

[Leon Tricker]

Bish Bosch

Keyzer wrote: I'm perfectly willing to accept that there may be some artistic merit in Walker's latter albums...

For me it's not even a question of artistic merit. It's about whether I enjoy it. I enjoy listening to Walker's music, both recent and old. I enjoy listening to different eras at different times for different moods and occasions.

For me, it's not about whether the new stuff is 'better' than the old stuff. It's not about whether Walker is 'better' than another artist. It's about whether I enjoy it.

It takes no effort for me to lsiten to Tilt or The Drift or Bish Bosch. I listen because I like the combination of sounds. I don't listen to, say, U2 because history has taught me I'm not gonna like the combination of sounds on their albums. But I don't blame U2 for me not liking them. I just don't buy their records.

Keyzer wrote: ...even if the experiments only serve to warn other musicians 'Don't make music like this.'

You seem to place value on music which influences other musicians (this comment and your earlier one re. no artists referencing The Drift since its release.) Why is that improtant to you? Why does music or art need the validation of other people working in that field?

Keyzer wrote: But if you are one of those people who sits down, presses play and then genuinely enjoys a record like this, what do you really, actually get out of it?

I'm starting to think you are either Michael Elphick circa 1979, or my dad circa 1987 when I invited 'heavy metal' over to our house for tea.

[MsD]

Bish Bosch

Some of the reviews are fun.

Themes of decay are woven throughout these songs -- of empire, of the body, of language and religion -- yet they are often complemented and illustrated by wry, pun-like, and even scatological humor. Walker's pessismism is akin to Samuel Beckett's and like the author, he holds space for a sliver of hope. On "Corps de Blah," a chorus of farts answers an a cappella lullaby whose lyrics are grotesque. Before it's over, Walker reaches operatic heights vocally, singing about bodily functions, surgery ("Nothing clears out a room/like removing a brain"), speculative philosophy, and romantic betrayal, all while accompanied by thrumming, wailing strings, metallic guitar riffs, a flailing drum kit, and layers of electronics and ambience. "Epizootics!" uses a “tubax” -- part baritone sax, part tuba -- that introduces an infectious, fingerpopping drum chant before Walker employs bop-era vocal phrasing to climb to a careening crescendo before his version of a Hawaiian folk song closes it. "Tar’s" power electronics shriek is brought to earth by a rhythmic strategy that involves machetes frantically clashing against one another.

http://www.allmusic.com/song/corps-de-blah-mt0045903465

(clip)^

[Bored Of Education]

Bish Bosch

My brother is named after Scott Walker. As you were

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

Leon Tricker wrote: For me it's not even a question of artistic merit. It's about whether I enjoy it. I enjoy listening to Walker's music, both recent and old. I enjoy listening to different eras at different times for different moods and occasions.

For me, it's not about whether the new stuff is 'better' than the old stuff. It's not about whether Walker is 'better' than another artist. It's about whether I enjoy it.

And I cannot for the life of me grasp how you, or indeed anyone else, could enjoy it. And nothing you've said explains why you enjoy it. But horses for courses and all that...

[quote]Leon Tricker wrote:

It takes no effort for me to lsiten to Tilt or The Drift or Bish Bosch. I listen because I like the combination of sounds.

You like the sound of a chorus of farts?

Leon Tricker wrote: You seem to place value on music which influences other musicians (this comment and your earlier one re. no artists referencing The Drift since its release.) Why is that improtant to you? Why does music or art need the validation of other people working in that field?

Well artists, the good ones, tend to know a thing or two about what makes a good record. There's a process that exists in popular music. Talented artists break new ground, others take what they've done and develop it. Looking back over the history of the medium allows us to see what has been influential and following from that what has been good. But that's only one aspect of evaluating a record. When I'm listening to it for the first time I just care about whether or not it's good/melodic/rhythmic/exciting/inventive/eloquent. There's fuck all evidence of any of that on Bish Bosch.

Leon Tricker wrote: I'm starting to think you are either Michael Elphick circa 1979, or my dad circa 1987 when I invited 'heavy metal' over to our house for tea.

Heavy metal fucking rocks. That's the difference.

[Gangster Octopus]

Bish Bosch

Keyzer wrote: Heavy metal fucking rocks.

Ah, now we know how to read your music posts...

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

And how would that be, precisely?

[Furtho]

Bish Bosch

Bored of Education wrote: My brother is named after Scott Walker. As you were

I most assuredly was not.

[Gangster Octopus]

Bish Bosch

Keyzer wrote: And how would that be, precisely?

With ear-plugs...

[Keyzer]

Bish Bosch

Oh, my sides. Care to engage with any of the points of discussion?

[Gangster Octopus]

Bish Bosch

Not really. I haven't heard the album of this thread. And I probably never will.

[Ray de Galles]

Bish Bosch

Furtho wrote:

My brother is named after Scott Walker. As you were

I most assuredly was not.

I'm Spartacus!

[delicatemoth]

Bish Bosch

Well, it comes down to "I like it, you don't" which is fine. But I originally took issue with what I perceived as your implication that people couldn't genuinely like 'The Drift' and that anyone who said they did was fooling themselves and/or others. I do think it is good, inventive, rhythmic, melodic, beautiful, scary and awesome. If that's the sound of a midlife crisis then I wish a few more musicians would have one.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Bish Bosch

He's nearly 70, and he's been making music more or less like Bish Bosch since he was 50. That's a long midlife crisis, in the wrong place (working title for the next album, etc).

[Disco Child Ballads]

I've recently developed a bit of a Scott Walker obsession which is partly due to seeing the recent Scott Walker Prom on TV. I also got hold of a cheap box set of his first 5 solo albums and they are indeed very wonderful. In exploring his music I've got as far as Climate of Hunter and Nite Flights, and I'm wondering whether to now go onto the weirder later stuff. Is it worth it? It strikes me as the sort of music you have to be in a certain frame of mind to listen to.

And how great a track is 'The Electrician'? It sounds like nothing I've ever heard before.