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  1. #26
    Sean of the Shed's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    I'm all for giving a chance to cities who would otherwise not be able to host International tournament game because of the lack of infrastructure in their own nation, but that could be solved by allowing individual groups to be hosted by one particular country, before whittling the hosting countries down to one or two for the knockout games.
    By just hopping from city to city it just seems like Sepp and Michel's corporate jaunt across Europe's major cities who will vie with each other to accommodate them as comfortably as possible in the hope of being awarded a Champion's League final in the near future.

  2. #27

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    .

  3. #28

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Some of Turkey is in Europe.

  4. #29
    ursus arctos's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Including both of the most likely venues for matches in Turkey under this format.

  5. #30

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Sean of the Shed wrote: You say that like it makes it all ok.
    Not my intention, simply an observation.

    From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.
    I like the 'host nation' style of tournaments but with national economies as they are just now I can see the attraction in this.

  6. #31
    Duncan Gardner's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Presumably the 'bidding process' and other logistics will happen well before the finals tournament, not during it. Possibly well before all the qualifiers are known. So Holyrood and the Scottish FA spunking millions to UEFA might get you Bulgaria v Romania. Who, you may remember, played at St James Park in Euro 96 to a crowd of about 5,000 people.

    What evidence is there that UEFA specifically want locals rather than visitors at games? Surely they want whoever can tolerate high prices, while at the same time needing at least some rival supports to boost TV atmosphere.

  7. #32

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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    AMMS wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean of the Shed
    You say that like it makes it all ok.
    Not my intention, simply an observation.

    From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.
    I like the 'host nation' style of tournaments but with national economies as they are just now I can see the attraction in this.
    As a local, it was pretty easy for me to buy tickets 6 months in advance for the 2005 UEFA cup final in Lisbon.

    Still think the idea isn't the greatest for 2020.

  8. #33
    E10 Rifle's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    The thing is, there's now an obsession with the idea that these events require massive infrastructure spending. They simply do not, certainly not in Europe. But it seems like the Olympics-inspired orthodoxy that hosting big sporting events is a Route To Growth for entire nations' economies has been swallowed whole, despite it being, to a very large part, utter bollocks.

  9. #34
    Duncan Gardner's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Indeed. Panem et Circenses.

    I hear your local white elephant stadium isn't going to be used again until 2015 at earliest. It's a joke.

  10. #35

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.

    Why? Don't they have plenty of chance to see their own teams in the qualifiers? And if football authorities were keen on locals watching matches, they wouldn't set ticket prices at a multiple of the local weekly wage at the last two tournaments.

  11. #36
    E10 Rifle's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    I don't understand why they didn't keep the park open all autumn, in its full Olympic layout, and charge people a tenner a pop for guided tours of it. As someone who didn't get a ticket for any events at the park, I'd have shelled out. Could've cleared the deficit for it without having to pollute it with West Ham's presence.

  12. #37

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    E10 Rifle wrote: I don't understand why they didn't keep the park open all autumn, in its full Olympic layout, and charge people a tenner a pop for guided tours of it. As someone who didn't get a ticket for any events at the park, I'd have shelled out. Could've cleared the deficit for it without having to pollute it with West Ham's presence.
    Sydney were doing tours as far as 4 years after the 2000 Olympics.

  13. #38

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Beijing still does them. But then I guess there are 1.3b potential customers

  14. #39

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    steveeeeeeeee wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by AMMS
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean of the Shed
    You say that like it makes it all ok.
    Not my intention, simply an observation.

    From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.
    I like the 'host nation' style of tournaments but with national economies as they are just now I can see the attraction in this.
    As a local, it was pretty easy for me to buy tickets 6 months in advance for the 2005 UEFA cup final in Lisbon.
    I did the same for the 2011 final. I don't buy this idea that UEFA want natives at their showpiece matches. All they care about is gouging the maximum possible amount of money out of the highest possible number of people, regardless of the colour of those people's passports.

  15. #40
    antoine polus's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Tony C wrote: He's clearly banking on the Easyjets of this world denying themselves standard commercial opportunities based on basic 'supply and demand' principles in order to ensure that supporters are transported at reasonable cost.
    On second thoughts, maybe it is cheaper this way. A couple of matches in Paris make almost no dent in the supply/demand of flights and trains in and out of Paris. Ditto accommodation.

    Whereas having an Irish Euro match in some place like Poznan is a price gouger's paradise. Hotels jacked their prices up and the few existing direct flights into Poznan were selling for 450 euros return. I had to fly into Berlin and make my way from there.

    It would have been cheaper for me had the match been in Paris. And it is a big city with other things to do besides standing in a square with 40,000 shitfaced people with inflatable hammers.

    When I was in Berlin I met loads of Italian, Irish and Spanish fans who had decided to spend the non-match days in Berlin. It was a more interesting city, the accommodation was cheaper and the football atmosphere there was actually better and less alcoholic.

  16. #41

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    You could count the number of cities where you could hide a couple of international games without travel and accommodation costs spiking, on the fingers of Django Reinhardt's hand. Paris is a global travel hub, with a population of 8 or nine million.

  17. #42
    antoine polus's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Sure. But places like Poznan and Kharkiv are at the other extreme. These are not the type of places that can seriously cope with 40,000 fans suddenly showing up. And when you host a major tournament in a single country/two countries you are always going to have the problem of not having enough big cities.

    There are plenty of medium-sized cities in Europe that, while not Paris-type global cities, would be much more better equipped to deal with such a tournament than Poznan or Kharkiv. Dublin, Stockholm, Edinburgh, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Munich, Barcelona, Lisbon, etc.

    Personally, faced with the choice of being able to follow all three group games in a place like Ukraine, or only make it to one or two group games in a place like Barcelona and make holiday out of it at the same time, I know I'd go for the second choice. Maybe that doesn't make me a real football fan, I don't know.

  18. #43

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Duncan Gardner wrote: Presumably the 'bidding process' and other logistics will happen well before the finals tournament, not during it. Possibly well before all the qualifiers are known. So Holyrood and the Scottish FA spunking millions to UEFA might get you Bulgaria v Romania. Who, you may remember, played at St James Park in Euro 96 to a crowd of about 5,000 people.
    Glasgow's one of very few cities to have two UEFA 5 star stadiums, we've already spunked our millions to them thanks very much. We get them or we might get Spain v Germany.

    Duncan Gardner wrote: What evidence is there that UEFA specifically want locals rather than visitors at games? Surely they want whoever can tolerate high prices, while at the same time needing at least some rival supports to boost TV atmosphere.
    The fact they take no account of what teams/countries are placed into what venues, the price of tickets which when you add travel and accommodation on becomes even more prohibitive, the number of tickets made available to participating sides and the number made available to 'locals' and sponsors.

  19. #44

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.

    Why? Don't they have plenty of chance to see their own teams in the qualifiers? And if football authorities were keen on locals watching matches, they wouldn't set ticket prices at a multiple of the local weekly wage at the last two tournaments.
    There is a difference between qualifiers and finals though. Plus if you live in a country with a shit national team then you might not see terribly competitive matches.
    Ticket pricing is an issue I agree, but when you add travel and hotels on top then it's equally prohibitive if not more.

  20. #45

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    AB2 wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by steveeeeeeeee
    Quote Originally Posted by AMMS
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean of the Shed
    You say that like it makes it all ok.
    Not my intention, simply an observation.

    From what I can see UEFA would rather matches were attended by 'locals' than travelling supporters and that's been their view for a while now. If a wider spread of 'locals' have the opportunity to attend Euro finals matches then that seems to be an improvement on before.
    I like the 'host nation' style of tournaments but with national economies as they are just now I can see the attraction in this.
    As a local, it was pretty easy for me to buy tickets 6 months in advance for the 2005 UEFA cup final in Lisbon.
    I did the same for the 2011 final. I don't buy this idea that UEFA want natives at their showpiece matches. All they care about is gouging the maximum possible amount of money out of the highest possible number of people, regardless of the colour of those people's passports.
    You don't think they'd rather have a sanitised stadium full of neutrals who want to enjoy the spectacle and match? Lots of photogenic kids and pretty woman rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?

  21. #46

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: You could count the number of cities where you could hide a couple of international games without travel and accommodation costs spiking, on the fingers of Django Reinhardt's hand. Paris is a global travel hub, with a population of 8 or nine million.
    That's not right though, probably about 10 cities could without much difficulty.

  22. #47
    Duncan Gardner's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    AMMS wrote: Glasgow's one of very few cities to have two UEFA 5 star stadiums, we've already spunked our millions to them thanks very much. We get them or we might get Spain v Germany
    You almost certainly won't, Madrid or Munich will pay more. It's a food chain, not a lottery.

    The fact they take no account of what teams/countries are placed into what venues, the price of tickets which when you add travel and accommodation on becomes even more prohibitive, the number of tickets made available to participating sides and the number made available to 'locals' and sponsors
    That 'fact' has been contradicted in the past, has it not? England's perceived hooligan support being exiled to the islands in Italy 1990, for example. But more generally it doesn't follow that not rigging the draw means you prefer home based fans. You might want to at least pay lip service to an open draw.

    Ticket prices can be marginal for travelling fans who've already shelled out for flights, hotels etc. As an example, NI fans paid €8 in Porto recently; had the price been three or four times that it wouldn't have greatly affected those who'd budgetted hundreds for the trip as a whole.

    I accept that Northern European countries with a big away following often gurn about allocations. But most countries seem to allow them to be redistributed by touting.

    Not sure what point you're making about sponsors. Coca-Cola aren't a local anywhere bar the Atlanta Olympics.

    Lots of photogenic kids and pretty women rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?
    It's about maximising income, not a PR exercise. Fat Dads are prepared to pay more than milky bar kids.

  23. #48

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    AMMS wrote: You don't think they'd rather have a sanitised stadium full of neutrals who want to enjoy the spectacle and match? Lots of photogenic kids and pretty woman rather than roaring teenage lads and pot bellied men shouting obscenities at the ref and opposition?
    They already have that, except it's corporate guests rather than genuine neutral football-lovers. And it's been the case for years. Look at the spectators at any random match in the World Cup finals.

    I remember reading at the time that more than one-third of the crowd for Brazil-Scotland at France 98 (attendance 80,000) were there as guests of MasterCard.

  24. #49

    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    Sure. But places like Poznan and Kharkiv are at the other extreme. These are not the type of places that can seriously cope with 40,000 fans suddenly showing up. And when you host a major tournament in a single country/two countries you are always going to have the problem of not having enough big cities.

    but spreading a tournament over eight venues in an area as big as France and Germany put together is a stupid way to run a tournament. Poland and Ukraine couldn't afford to host this tournament properly, and the Ukraine end was held together with twine and massive bribes. For Irish fans, travelling to paris, staying for a couple of days, and then moving on to another european city in another european country is fucking insane, and brings all of the shit aspects of hosting a tournament in a couple of huge countries, with none of the benefits of a traditional tournament.

    This problem is exacerbated by the difficulties caused by the draw. unless you're going to draw the teams on a geographical basis, then you're going to be faced with the prospect of absurd and unpredictable travel, opening you up to being completely (metaphorically) raped by the airlines. and if you don't do it on a geographical basis, you're giving certain teams an enormous advantage, unless none of them are going to be at home, in which case, you're left with the position of making everyone travel anyway.

    That's not right though, probably about 10 cities could without much difficulty.

    Really? You only need to half fill a flight before the cost of tickets starts to sharply rise, and the thing that dictates this isn't the capacity of the end destination to handle the influx, but the number of people starting from the other end. Only somewhere like paris or london would possibly allow you enough alternative routes to get there, and even then spare accommodation capacity in london and paris in june is pretty much at a premium.

    It would only be worse everywhere else.

    There is a difference between qualifiers and finals though. Plus if you live in a country with a shit national team then you might not see terribly competitive matches.

    well..... tough. That's what club football is for. And it's not exactly as though this method they're proposing is any different to the earliest incarnations of the competition where they only played 3 games in one country for the semis and finals.

  25. #50
    Satchmo Distel's Avatar
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    The Euro 2020 host venue options

    I don't see how this model is going to support games between two poorly supported sides, such as the Bulgaria v Rumania example cited above. At present those games are accommodated by the host nation factor, so 5,000 fans turn up just for the ambiance of the tournament, but there's no ambiance in Bulgaria v Rumania in Istanbul, or Serbia v Slovakia in Turin.

    I don't think football in empty stadia can be compared to the American TV model which AFAIK still has spectators at the grounds.

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