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  1. #51
    Bordeaux Education's Avatar
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    Not a terribly insightful perspective but Barcelona this weekend was awash with Estreladas and "Si!" flags with any "No!" poster defaced. However, i did have a nagging feeling that it would be very much pro-independence in the urban areas and anti- in rural Catalonia. I say "nagging", I think that, with no horse in the race and not being a fan of nationalism, I should keep my beak out but if Catalans want independence, they should get it.

  2. #52
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    Half of Barca (the poorer, castellano speakers in areas like Besos and L’Hospitalet), and maybe some of the soft nationalist pijo middle classes (where linguistic nationalism is probably more important than separatism that might risk their bank balance) would vote no in a proper ballot. Out in the sticks, that might well be the separatist heartland. Places like Vic, Olot, there are folk who genuinely have trouble speaking Spanish (as opposed to refusing to). I’d imagine Catalunya Profunda will vote si.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 22-09-2017 at 00:40.

  3. #53
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    The ref seems a completely stupid idea, esp with 49% in the polls looking like definite no. And if the turnout is shit cos the no voters stay home, there is no legitimacy at all. Im partly thinking the Nats went ahead hoping for this kind of bullshit reaction from the Spanish state and the barely post-fascist scumballs in the PP. if anything will drive up the yes vote, its the raiding of the Govt by those worthless goons in the Guardia Civil.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lang Spoon View Post
    The ref seems a completely stupid idea, esp with 49% in the polls looking like definite no. And if the turnout is shit cos the no voters stay home, there is no legitimacy at all. I’m partly thinking the Nats went ahead hoping for this kind of bullshit reaction from the Spanish state and the barely post-fascist scumballs in the PP. if anything will drive up the yes vote, it’s the raiding of the Govt by those worthless goons in the Guardia Civil.
    One poll last Sunday put the turnout at 60%, and the other at 51%, so it would seem that Podemos voters are also likely to go to the polls, and the 2015 result suggests a median figure. Of course, it's no basis to form a country, but perhaps if the ballot goes ahead, Madrid will eventually offer a legal vote.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala...election,_2015

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala...rendum%2C_2017

  5. #55
    Someone should really send Rajoy a book on Irish history - now, Barcelona protesters are being charged with "sedition".

    https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/22...18182.amp.html

  6. #56
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    It is all smelling a bit 1910’s Ireland now. If Rajoy backed down he’d face his own Curragh mutiny as well.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 22-09-2017 at 20:06.

  7. #57
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    Glasgow SLab MP Paul Sweeney is firmly for Madrid, barring some “misguided” overreach by the fuzz. Was tweeting some bollocks today that Catalan support for separatism was small until they became a net contributor to the Spanish state. Absolute bollocks and shite. Barring a sudden massive deficit at the time of the crash, the Catalans have always subsidised the Spanish state.

  8. #58
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    Spanish police have relieved the Catalan police force of their duty.

    That's one way to start a civil war, I suppose.

  9. #59
    The funniest element of all this is the pictures of Spanish police stuck off the coast in a "Looney Tunes" boat (no, really)!

    https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/22...02110.amp.html
    Last edited by Diable Rouge; 23-09-2017 at 13:51.

  10. #60
    ursus arctos's Avatar
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    Not to mention the fact that the government is reportedly spending Euro 300,000 for those boats (there are three, two in BCN and one in Tarragona).

  11. #61
    Perhaps unsurprisingly, the Basques have now joined the political fray:

    https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/b...162831188.html

  12. #62
    anton pulisov's Avatar
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    If it doesn't work out then Madrid can always send in the Black and Tans.

  13. #63
    Toby Gymshorts's Avatar
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  15. #65
    Bordeaux Education's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Gymshorts View Post
    What a red herring that is. Like La Liga is going to get rid of half of its cash cow.

  16. #66

  17. #67
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    Or riots and mass arrests. Be interesting to see how the Catalan cops respond to a hostile immovable crowd

  18. #68
    Whatever the turnout, it won't be for the want of schools as polling stations:

    https://escolesobertes.eu

  19. #69
    Hmmm - SF MEP Martina Anderson (who wanted to stick a hard Border up Theresa May's fundament) has arrived in Barcelona as an "international observer" of the referendum!

  20. #70
    My Catalan colleague is flying back for the weekend to vote.

  21. #71
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    I’d really like to see what the pig bastards do when thousands descend on the polling places. Fuck Spain, fuck the King, fuck the Constitution fetish. And Catalan nationalism gets on my tits tbh. But Official Spain, and the wanks in places like Zaragoza claiming Spain Indivisible and waving their fucking flags... cmon Catalunya, do this for the Moriscos and conversos, for the peons worked to death by church and landowner. Bring the whole rotten thing down.

  22. #72
    or not. I wonder have the catalonians really thought this through. Lets say they get to the point where they messily declare independence. What are they going to do outside the European Union, single market, and Customs union? I mean I assume there will be a large razor wire fence. What will they do for food? The EU is pretty clear about this sort of thing. Spain got them to put it on the record good and early in the chat about scotland.

  23. #73
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    Well a part of me would like Spain to disintegrate, with the Basques following swiftly. And if the Spanish go full Black and Tan on their impudent autonomas, the EU might find it quite difficult to stand behind their actions, especially if there is widespread support for the Catalans against State Violence. Without the most productive regions in their Economy, Spain would die pretty quickly without a Single Market/Customs Union deal. Could see the EU parking the Catalans in an EEA type pen for a few years.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 28-09-2017 at 19:36.

  24. #74
    Lang Spoon's Avatar
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    ps I agree the whole thing seems fucking mental and I’ve enough of a prejudice built on bitter worker experience against their smug middle classes to be very suspicious of the likes of Pep when they talk about social justice in the New Catalunya. I just hate Castille’s pijos even more. Linguistic/Ethnic nationalism sucks to me (but maybe that’s coz the position of Scottish “native” languages is so marginalized by geography or class). The way some of these fannies would talk about the Spanish speaking poor out at the arse end of the BCN rail lines makes me sceptical.
    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 28-09-2017 at 19:51.

  25. #75
    So, sending the police in appears to have driven up predicted turnout by 10%:

    http://www.eldiario.es/catalunya/pol...691531939.html

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