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  1. #26

    Visca Catalunya?

    ursus arctos wrote: Well, there isn't even unanimity over the flag, with both versions of the Estellada competing with the current Senyera.

    Personally, I much prefer the blue version:

    The blue flag is much better. Apparantly the red-star on yellow hoist triangle flag represents the Union of Catalan-speaking peoples - a Greater Catalunya if you will incorporating Andorra, Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of France and the Sardinian city of Alghero.

  2. #27
    ursus arctos's Avatar
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    Visca Catalunya?

    I've never heard that about Alghero, and have been told in no uncertain terms by Valencians that they are NOT Catalan.

  3. #28

    Visca Catalunya?

    Felicity, I guess so wrote:
    DR, historical polls severely underestimate the impact of the Spanish government's ham handed attempts to quash the vote.
    Indeed.

    And the Scottish vote wasn't 60:40, was it? Hence my comment about your 'close to the Scottish proportions'
    I hope you're right man, but there have been plenty of false dawns before with Quebec and the Basque Country (surprising they're so quiet), that an election followed by a UDI may well bring matters to an end sooner.

  4. #29

    Visca Catalunya?

    Bizarre Lw Triangle wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by ursus arctos
    Well, there isn't even unanimity over the flag, with both versions of the Estellada competing with the current Senyera.

    Personally, I much prefer the blue version:

    The blue flag is much better. Apparantly the red-star on yellow hoist triangle flag represents the Union of Catalan-speaking peoples - a Greater Catalunya if you will incorporating Andorra, Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of France and the Sardinian city of Alghero.
    If South Vietnam were still around, their national team would have been sponsored by Adidas.

    The latin american flag closest to the catalan one is Puerto Rico's:


  5. #30

    Visca Catalunya?

    In the latest instalment of "How to lose Regions and alienate People", the PM declares there will be no discussion about a referendum, seems now a question of when, not if The divorce occurs.

  6. #31

    Visca Catalunya?

    In an intriguing development, Convergencia i Unio has broken into two parties over the forthcoming election, the current political spectrum being as follows:

    CDC, Esquerra, CUP - independence
    UCD, Podemos - pro-referendum, but anti-independence
    PSOE, PP, Ciudadanos - against both

  7. #32

    Visca Catalunya?

    The only question as the eve of the poll approaches is whether the Mas coalition can govern alone, or will require CUP support for a majority. The plan appears to involve an 18-month negotiation timetable with Madrid, but with the PP likely to remain the largest party after the general election, stalemate remains likely, and like Scotland, exclusion from the EU and the euro hardly seems to have been contemplated.

  8. #33

    Visca Catalunya?

    The Euro's so distant already I don't know how much anyone in Catalonia would notice the difference.

  9. #34

    Visca Catalunya?

    Bizarre Lw Triangle wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by ursus arctos
    Well, there isn't even unanimity over the flag, with both versions of the Estellada competing with the current Senyera.

    Personally, I much prefer the blue version:

    The blue flag is much better. Apparantly the red-star on yellow hoist triangle flag represents the Union of Catalan-speaking peoples - a Greater Catalunya if you will incorporating Andorra, Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of France and the Sardinian city of Alghero.
    The starry flag is a battle flag. They have made clear than in the event of an independent Catalonia the current official flag will remain.

  10. #35

    Visca Catalunya?

    Exit poll:

    Juntos por S (Mas) 63-66
    Ciudadanos 19-21
    Socialists 14-16
    Podemos 12-14
    CUP (left nationalists) 11-13
    PP 9-11

    So, 76 roughly to break away, 45 to stay, 14 voting on social issues.

    In terms of %, 50% for separatists, 40% unionists, 10% Podemos.

  11. #36

    Visca Catalunya?

    Actually Podemos are not standing on their own. The 12-14 seats are for Catalunya Si Que Es Pot, a coalition of Podemos and Iniciativa per Catalunya (The Catalan branch of United Left).

    Strangely they are the only pro-referendum list, sandwiched between unilateralist independentists and anti-referendum unionists.

    The polls I've seen give UDC between 0 and 3 seats.

  12. #37

    Visca Catalunya?

    That 48% Yes vote will see both sides claiming victory, probably will take the general election for the stalemate to be broken.

  13. #38

    Visca Catalunya?

    The declaration of independence is made, but presumably an equitable fudge will occur after the general election.

  14. #39

    Visca Catalunya?

    Mas resigns as President of the Generalitat, as an agreement between Juntos and CUP is finalised.

  15. #40

    Visca Catalunya?

    So, once more, Madrid decides to block a referendum, but it seems the Catalans will actually go ahead this time. Opinion polls suggested a 50/50 split, but a refusal to negotiate hardly helps the unionist argument.

  16. #41

    Visca Catalunya?

    Binding Indyref to be held on October 1st.

  17. #42
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    Visca Catalunya?

    For certain values of binding, presumably.

  18. #43
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    Visca Catalunya?

    Are they going to try and use official polling places/involve the normal electoral overseers in Catalunya? Fuck that, Madrid will send in the serious bastard shoot to kill cops with their ridiculous pointy hats. They'd smash up the Generalitat and ban pa amb tomaquet and shit ring a roses folk dancing rather than allow such a thing to go ahead.

  19. #44

    Visca Catalunya?

    I would imagine the suspension of self-government would involve the sending of troops rather than the police, and even though I'm sure a not small part of the People's Party constituency would touch themselves at the prospect I don't think it's a scenario the central goverment would like to happen.

    The Catalan government intends to avoid signing any act in order not to trigger any response from Madrid, but seeing as the mere debate of the referendum in the Catalan parliament started a trial against the speaker and other members of the house it's highly unlikely that nothing will happen.

  20. #45
    So, with three weeks to go until the 2017 vote, it would seem to be of a whole new order of magnitude in comparison with 2014. Yes, Madrid has, as usual, had the vote declared unconstitutional by the Constitutional Court, and vowed to prevent the ballot by all means possible. But on this occasion, the Generalitat has passed reams of legislation establishing tax and social welfare agencies, and a singular law entitled the Catalan Law of Transitional Jurisiprudence and the Foundation of the Republic, which would ensure that once independence is declared, Catalonia would control all governmental functions. Of course, Maca ruled an independent Catalonia for three days in 1931, and even if de facto independence occurs, Spanish non-recognition would prevent either the EU or its constituent members from doing so, leaving the new nation in a Somaliland/Transnistria-style limbo, if only until tensions receded.

  21. #46
    It seems that following the referendum, a few days would follow seeking negotiations with Rajoy, but in the absence of any agreement, the result would be ratified on October 4th, and independence would be declared on October 6th.

  22. #47
    Just another day in Catalonia, it seems - apart from Spanish police raiding Catalan government buildings:

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-36150690.html

  23. #48

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    When are they going to ask the Luftwaffe to bomb the Basques?

  24. #49

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  25. #50

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