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    Absolutely, positively.

    As indicated by their badge

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      It appears Monday will be Independence Day, followed swiftly by whatever action Rajoy takes:

      http://www.lasexta.com/noticias/naci...9a8ba1576.html

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        So.

        Mossos - "local state" guards

        Civil - "national state" guards

        Nacional - no such thing any more?

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          The Guardia Nacional only existed in Republican Spain for two years in the 30s.

          Forces with that name exist in several Latin American countries.

          I would note that "guarding" in the literal sense is not the primary function of any of these forces.

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            Nor is it the case with any police force having a primary function of "policing" things.

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              "els mossos" are purely a Catalan thing to replace the Guardia Civil locally. No other region has them.

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                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                Absolutely, positively.

                As indicated by their badge

                Jesus fucking christ.

                Franco died in 1975. that means that everyone who was an adult under him is at least 60, so that means that everyone who had a stake in francoist society is now retired. How long do we have to wait for the grim reaper to get spain to the point where they can sort themselves out with a new constitution, that isn't a compromise with the francoists, who can all fuck off and die in a fire, and get themselves a police force that is less aggressively fascist?

                There's a lot to be said for completely overhauling your police force from top to bottom, and trying to follow international best practice. Especially when it's as clearly institutionally rotten as something like the Guardia Civil, or the RUC.

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                  You haven’t spent much time in Spain, have you?

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                    Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                    Bit harsh on Belgium there, AITL. They improved a lot once they knew they'd be in the Euro. High nominal debt now but credibility is well established.
                    Belgium's debt to gdp ratio in 2005 was nearly 95%, it fell to 87% in 2007, which is the bit you were talking about. This is quite a large drop in a short space of time, and without it, belgium would have run into serious trouble, because they added 20% to that figure over the last decade, and now they're 1 sharp economic downturn away from calling in the troika. In order to get down to the maastricht criteria, belgium is either going to have to grow its economy by 80% while not borrowing, or actually pay some of this back, or a combination of the two. So you can imagine they are pretty keen on things like the Financial transactions tax, and doing something about corporation tax.

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                      Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                      You haven’t spent much time in Spain, have you?
                      More than he's spent in RUC-land...

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                        Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                        Jesus fucking christ.

                        Franco died in 1975. that means that everyone who was an adult under him is at least 60, so that means that everyone who had a stake in francoist society is now retired. How long do we have to wait for the grim reaper to get spain to the point where they can sort themselves out with a new constitution, that isn't a compromise with the francoists, who can all fuck off and die in a fire, and get themselves a police force that is less aggressively fascist?

                        There's a lot to be said for completely overhauling your police force from top to bottom, and trying to follow international best practice. Especially when it's as clearly institutionally rotten as something like the Guardia Civil, or the RUC.
                        Or the Gardai.

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                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                          You haven’t spent much time in Spain, have you?
                          I think an afternoon in toledo gets you most of the way there, god those old ladies are fucking terrifying. But they're old. Has spain had it's inevitable glut of child abuse scandals yet, to crush the moral authority of the church? There's a lot that gets washed away in that flood.

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                            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                            Jesus fucking christ.

                            Franco died in 1975. that means that everyone who was an adult under him is at least 60, so that means that everyone who had a stake in francoist society is now retired. How long do we have to wait for the grim reaper to get spain to the point where they can sort themselves out with a new constitution, that isn't a compromise with the francoists, who can all fuck off and die in a fire, and get themselves a police force that is less aggressively fascist?

                            There's a lot to be said for completely overhauling your police force from top to bottom, and trying to follow international best practice. Especially when it's as clearly institutionally rotten as something like the Guardia Civil, or the RUC.
                            I dunno. The Civil War ended 150 years ago and we've still got a lot of people trying to overturn its result.

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                              Spain in the main isn’t mad religious Berba. Way fewer go to Church than Poland or even Italy. But they haven’t fallen as far or fast as the church in Ireland, despite selling babies of leftists etc in the Franco time. the right can point to the Martyred nuns and priests shot during the Civil War and play the victim. Not enough of the creeping Jesus cunts were shot tbh (most killings happened in areas where the Church was a stone evil landowner over the peons).
                              Last edited by Lang Spoon; 04-10-2017, 18:01.

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                                Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
                                So.

                                Mossos - "local state" guards

                                Civil - "national state" guards

                                Nacional - no such thing any more?
                                The guys in dark blue (who seemed to be doing most of the bad shit over the weekend) are Policia Nacional. They only look mildly ridiculous in their camp as Butlins tight blue outfits and are utter bastards. The Met meets South Yorkshire meets horrible French cops meets the RUC level of scumbaggery. There are always some Policia Nacional in Catalunya, but the Guardia Civil in green (and with even more ridiculous hats) are full on Paramilitary evil pigs. They usually don’t work in Catalunya. Those were the bastards who did most of the really shady stuff up in the Basque Country for Felipe Gonzales (shoot to kill etc).

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                                  I mentioned somewhere above that only one in six go to mass at least a couple of times a month, but I really didn't get the sense that the church had been put in its rightful place yet though. Our last cardinal was effectively run out of the country, and is in hiding in rome. Last week the bishop of Waterford and lismore (the diocese that Cahir is in) said that the HPV vaccine lead to promiscuity. The Blueshirt minister for health said this was "pathetic" and "Ignorant." and the fucking bishop only went and apologized for adding to the misinformation surrounding the issue. That's where the church is in ireland now

                                  Spain is still a long way from that.

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                                    Yep because Spain’s way of dealing with the evils in its society has been to shut up about what happened between 36-75 and let all of the collaborationist forces keep their influence and power. The reaction against Zapatero and Judge Balzar(?) attempting to reopen some of the “best left in the past” issues was vehement. Lots of businesses, institutions, families, their current position is built on blood. Amnesia suits everyone (especially Proudly Catalan and Basque business owners who quietly and profitably sold out to The Man in 39).

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                                      Puigdemont calls for dialogue, but simultaneously negates that by implying the offer expires on Monday.

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                                        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                        Yep because Spain’s way of dealing with the evils in its society has been to shut up about what happened between 36-75 and let all of the collaborationist forces keep their influence and power. The reaction against Zapatero and Judge Balzar(?) attempting to reopen some of the “best left in the past” issues was vehement. Lots of businesses, institutions, families, their current position is built on blood. Amnesia suits everyone (especially Proudly Catalan and Basque business owners who quietly and profitably sold out to The Man in 39).
                                        Was it this guy?

                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltasar_Garz%C3%B3n

                                        There's been some, on the face of it, impressive removal of statues and street names. But that's skin deep, I suppose.

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                                          El Pais not impressed with the Catalan government's actions.

                                          https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/03...84_438952.html

                                          Apart from the article playing down the violence, the last bit really jumps out.

                                          EL PAÍS is a newspaper that emerged after the death of the dictator Franco. It spoke of the need to defend a constitutional democracy in Spain. During the attempted coup in 1981 while tanks were crawling up the streets and the military police in control of Congress, its front page read: “EL PAÍS stands with the Constitution.” Now EL PAÍS still stands with the Constitution and proposes returning to the letter of the law to solve the current crisis. Let the various political parties agree on an amendment to the constitution that is voted on by the country as a whole so that people have the right to decide in a free, equal and democratic manner.
                                          I'm not sure this referendum was quite like the failed coup.

                                          Referendum for whole of Spain to allow its richest bits to secede? I'm not sure that's going to work.

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                                            Virtually all of my Spanish friends have been struck by the very hard line El Pais has been taking on the Catalan issue for a while now.

                                            It is a bit as if you controlled the Guardian's line on the Scottish Referendum, though there is also a broader sense that the paper has become significantly less progressive in recent years.

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                                              Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                              Was it this guy?

                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltasar_Garz%C3%B3n

                                              There's been some, on the face of it, impressive removal of statues and street names. But that's skin deep, I suppose.

                                              That’s him. A former brutal colonial power and half arsed fascist state like Portugal pre the carnation revolt seems way more chilled than Espain these days. Maybe cos the Revolution came from within the Army, rather than peaceful succession to a Franco trained wank who knew the way the wind was blowing.

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                                                Not even I wanted to forbid the Scottish referendum!

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                                                  Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                                  That’s him. Maybe a former brutal colonial power like Portugal pre the carnation revolt seems way more chilled than Espain these days. Maybe cos the Revolution came from within the Army, rather than peaceful succession to a Franco trained wank who knew the way the wind was blowing.
                                                  It's pretty striking, looking at this now, that the Amnesty Law post-Franco never got repealed despited international pressure.

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                                                    Banco Sabadell is moving its HQ to Alicante, with Caixabank mooting a similar switch to the Balearics.

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