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    #26
    Will smaller players come back into fashion

    Is this the same Pirlo who has won two European Cups and a World Cup?
    Is this one of those Wingco spoof threads?

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      #27
      Will smaller players come back into fashion

      I am sure that one obvious name in this list is a spoof ;

      In the premier league he will come up against the likes of Ballack, Gerrard, Torres, Rooney, Nolan, Jenas who are alot more physical and direct

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        #28
        Will smaller players come back into fashion

        11 players win cups AMMS. I am not doubting Pirlo's ability, i just think he is a gutless footballer without balls which is something.

        Inzhagi has just as impressive a medal haul and as does Seedorf who most on OTF do not rate (i do rate him btw).

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          #29
          Will smaller players come back into fashion

          Tactical Genius wrote:
          11 players win cups AMMS. I am not doubting Pirlo's ability, i just think he is a gutless footballer without balls which is something.

          Inzhagi has just as impressive a medal haul and as does Seedorf who most on OTF do not rate (i do rate him btw).
          I agree teams win but not usually with passengers. I'm not trying to pick a fight but do you think the defenders and midfielders in Serie A don't know how to physically intimidate a player? Is there a more cynical league in Europe than Italys? Pirlo is a fantastic player and to describe him as gutless puzzles me. Do you think it doesn't take guts to go on to a pitch knowing your going to get kicked, elbowed, spat on and intimidated in every game by every teams apparent hardman. The English league is good but to survive, far less prosper, in Spain and Italy you need to be both physically strong and have excellent technique. I'm not sure what your point is about Inzhagi and Seedorf but I can think of a couple of other 'gutless' players who came over from Serie A and didn't do to badly in England - Klinsman and Zola. Pirlo would be a huge success in England if he ever feels the need to top up his pension!

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            #30
            Will smaller players come back into fashion

            I think one thing small players have to their advantage is being able to foul an opponent and not get booked for it. João Moutinho is an absolute master of this, a vindictive player who intentionally fouls players throughout a game but without the force of a stronger player, avoiding yellow cards in the process. Also, because of his size, he goes down like a sack of spuds at the touch of a feather.

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              #31
              Will smaller players come back into fashion

              Tactical Genius wrote:
              If [Iniesta] plays in the premiership as he did in the final, he would not get much success.
              But why would he? He's been carrying a nasty stomach bug for the duration of the championship, which most who knew about it have attributed his frankly rubbish performances to.

              Ignore how he played in the final, or indeed throughout the Euros. It's how he's played at Barca for the last year - the season of his life so far - that'll give you an indicator of how well he might do in the Prem. And he doesn't give the ball away or wimp out of weak tackles against him anywhere near as much when he's actually fit.

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                #32
                Will smaller players come back into fashion

                Aye, Pirlo could never cope with having physical players like Ballack or Torsten Frings breathing down his neck. That's why he was invisible as Germany beat Italy in the 2006 WC semi-final. What? Oh.

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                  #33
                  Will smaller players come back into fashion

                  Yes, I don't agree with TG's Pirlo stuff in the slightest.

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                    #34
                    Will smaller players come back into fashion

                    Although Frings missed the 2006 semi-final.

                    (Not a pun)

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                      #35
                      Will smaller players come back into fashion

                      Good point there, I think the advantage Fabregas now has over Iniesta and Xavi is that having played in the EPL, he is better able to cope with the more physical aspects of the game and is less likely to be kicked out of a game or allow himself to be physically intimidated.
                      Iniesta is young enough to adjust but i doubt Xavi could (the same goes for Pirlo).


                      Fabregas is much tougher than either of the two barcelona players, and consistently moves the ball quicker and more directly than either. As such he is a much more dangerous player to play against. Xavi and iniesta had a lot of the ball against Man utd in the CL semi final but weren't doing very much with it to harm man utd. If Fabregas had that much of the ball he would definitely have caused many more problems. Fabregas is also a dirty violent little sod, with a petulant streak that neither of the two barcelona players have.

                      I remember saying during the final if I couldn't decide if Iniesta is just inconsistent or a very talented footballer who is very limited in some aspects of his game, and I suppose that it is that he and Xavi are very similar footballers, but that since Xavi is the more senior, Iniesta is pushed into trying to be more of an attacking midfielder, like a poor mans lionel messi rather than a string pulling midfielder. Does iniesta play differently when Xavi is missing?

                      I think the point TG is making about Pirlo is that in the premiership you have on average one second in possession before you are challenged whereas in the Bundesliga you have 3 seconds. (I don't know where this figure comes from other than Klinsmann has been banging on about it) I would suspect that Serie A would be a lot closer to the bundesliga end of the spectrum than the premiership. It would take pirlo a long time to get used to dealing with this for 90 minutes every game, twice a week, and he's pretty old now.

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                        #36
                        Will smaller players come back into fashion

                        If it's Route One, the ball's high in the air and therefore nobody at all has possession of it.

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                          #37
                          Will smaller players come back into fashion

                          Pirlo is like Fabregas in a number of ways, the most notable being his ability to always find that little bit of space to work in and to deliver pretty reliable passing to teammates.

                          He is a player who could prosper in the Premiership, though the circumstances in which this could happen are narrow to be fair. You kind of have to look at how he became what he became and replicate that arrangement. Inter could never find a role for him and it is to Ancellotti's credit he saw something there to work with and make into a potent player with a radical role change.

                          Bearing in mind what we know are his limitations it was a brave move, also a complex one as it involved structuring a midfield rather than just a position around him. It involved Gattuso, Ambrosini and Seedorf doing his hard work for him, protecting him and allowing him to play his game. It also needed players of guile and wit to get on his wavelength and ensure he had clever passing options. Having the likes of Kaka and an on form Shevchenko make this easier for him.

                          So he could play for Man United or Arsenal I reckon, they have players of clever movement to use his passing. But then their midfields would have to adapt to do his running for him (shades of Veron) and egos are so strong then you wonder if that would happen.

                          But whereas Fabregas would be an asset to any side, Pirlo would be a disaster at a mid- ranking Premiership side like Newcastle who have few players of intelligence or sufficient tactical nous to be able to play alongside him and help get the best from him.

                          He's a highly specialised player and such a player needs a highly specialised environment to prosper.

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                            #38
                            Will smaller players come back into fashion

                            If both sides are committed to playing fast-paced EPL style football, great, but I haven't seen much evidence that English teams are able to force continental teams/players into playing at a faster pace.

                            well they don't really. Ac Milan's two two legged victories over Man utd, and beating liverpool in last years final are the only times that an italian team has beaten an english team over two legs since 1997. (not counting penalties) Italian sides have been very poor at dealing with the high tempo of english premiership sides. Even then these victories have only happened since milan have moved to a seven game season and given up on league success.

                            Spanish teams are able to use the ball better than italian teams, and on average have younger and better players so can draw the sting out of english teams better and so until recently have an almost embarassingly onesided record against English teams. However the Italian teams can hold off the spanish teams who aren't sufficiently direct or athletic to overwhelm the italian teams, so you have this bizarre paper scissors rock set up between the three leagues where english teams generally hammer italian sides, but then lose to the spanish teams, who go on and shit themselves against the italians who are praying that they don't get an english team in the next round and so on and so on.

                            Pirlo is definitely intelligent enough, and deft enough with his use of the ball to prosper in the premiership but you would have to have serious doubts about his physical capacity to do so. since 2004 Milan have basically concentrated on the knockout stages of the champions league and as such barely lift a finger in the league.

                            As for there not being deep lying playmakers in the premiership, what exactly is Paul Scholes? Veron's problem was that he had no balls and was too ponderous and slow in thought and movement. His attitude was wretched, and basically he had retired after winning the league with lazio. Pirlo has a vastly better attitude than veron which is why he's made a career for himself that isn't basically living off the reputation he had earned in his early twenties.

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                              #39
                              Will smaller players come back into fashion

                              ...beating liverpool in last years final are the only times that an italian team has beaten an english team over two legs since 1997
                              (shall I tell him, or does somebody else want to?)

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                                #40
                                Will smaller players come back into fashion

                                He's missed out Fiorentina knocking Everton out of last years UEFA Cup too, unless the UEFA Cup is beneath his notice.

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                                  #41
                                  Will smaller players come back into fashion

                                  Of course it is, Manchester United haven't played in it for over a decade.

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                                    #42
                                    Will smaller players come back into fashion

                                    BrunoMaggiore wrote:
                                    Man United won with a great deal of flare and finesse
                                    In the context of your post you seem to be talking about the European Cup here, in which case I feel it's only fair to point out that this sentence refers to the manner in which we won the league, but certainly not to the way we won the European Cup (we were the better team in the semi, but we hardly played the better football).

                                    I did, admittedly, miss both legs of the quarter-final against Roma, and I hear that in the second leg particularly the scoreline didn't do us justice. But even so...

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                                      #43
                                      Will smaller players come back into fashion

                                      Manchester United, in the league, last season

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                                        #44
                                        Will smaller players come back into fashion

                                        milan explicitly gave up on league success by having a team of experienced players in their very late twenties to mid thirties, which is physically incapable of competing over a longer season. The decision was taken to concentrate on the champions league and we keep hearing about how milanello keeps milan players forever young. A team with the age profile of AC milan would never get next nor near the champions league if they were playing in england.

                                        He's missed out Fiorentina knocking Everton out of last years UEFA Cup too, unless the UEFA Cup is beneath his notice.

                                        I said not counting penalties. That game finished 2-2 on aggregate, with fiorentina winning 4-2 on penalties if I can recall. I did however omit ipswich losing 4-2 on aggregate to Inter milan.

                                        I don't find the sort of broad brushing about the various leagues to be very edifying, but suffice it to say that if the slower Italian side is good enough, it can still beat the pacier English side.

                                        They generally don't though.

                                        We'll see. Man United won with a great deal of flare and finesse and I'm holding out on whether the fact that the four English teams made it so far was some kind of cosmic alignment and affirmation of the EPL. If it keeps happening then okay.

                                        Man utd got to the CL final by defending like maniacs. I don't remember too much flair in a lot of united's champions league games to be honest. Outside of an outstanding 20 minutes in the CL final it was pretty humdrum stuff. Before lampard's jammy equalizer, the only goal they had conceded was against Lyon in the second round. It is also the second consecutive year that three PL teams made the semi finals. I'll be interested to see if it happens again.

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