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Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

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    #51
    Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

    I still find the whole "punishments for Newco" debate strange. If Newco is that (and legally it is) then it can't accept benefits and sanctions for the old co, otherwise it's a phoenix and the creditors and liquidator can take action. The crimes of the old co should be investigated and the records adjusted to "not assigned" as needed, but that's it (unless certain SFA people require punishment or individuals need life bans from football).

    But my confusion increases when I read that Southampton have paid a fee for Davis. Davis didn't transfer to Newco, so surely his fee belongs to the creditors? Yet BDO still wait to start as Lord Hodge is on holiday!!

    And Aberdeen beat a German diddy team 12 - 0.

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      #52
      Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

      It's vital for the buisness case of Sevco that they be seen as a continuation of Rangers rather than a fresh club. If they want the lay claim to Rangers history, colours and indeed name, then they need to bite the bullet regarding punishments due to the old company. Indeed, without all that history, why would Sevco have been admitted to the SFL?
      It's a fudge, obviously. And no less of a mess than previously.

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        #53
        Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

        Can't see this Saturday's game going ahead.

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          #54
          Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

          In which case, they'll presumably sit out the season, if a solution can't be found in five days, another seven would hardly make much difference?

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            #55
            Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

            It might have been better if they'd been told a month ago that they would be sitting this one out, but that would require an SFA with balls. Further delay gives the impression that Rangers are holding the game to ransom.

            In a sane world, the SFA would say "take these terms or fuck off."

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              #56
              Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

              Well at least last season’s thread is no longer on page 1, beyond that it seems I’ve returned from holiday to more of the same.

              Good to see the punishment junkies are still with us. Having been fined and had 10 points deducted last season, access to Champions League qualification denied, the club now finds itself in the fourth and bottom league of Scottish football with only 6 first team players under contract. Our Association wants us to accept and illegal transfer ban and to renounce our right to appeal any other punitive or illegal measures they might dream up, the clubs that voted to throw us out of their league want to keep any money we might generate, we’ve serious funding issues and, at best, unclear ownership. On top of that our own Association still hasn’t granted our licence to play and the first game of the season is literally only days away. In the course of this year the club has been humiliated and the support marginalised and ignored like never before. We’ve had no pre-season to speak of, have no first team and aren’t allowed to even play friendlies unless they are against Junior sides. If by some freak of football we managed to win either of the domestic cup competitions in the next couple of seasons we wouldn’t be allowed to take up the European spot that winning them brings.

              Perhaps you can see why many of us now view those who are still wanting further punishment as either bitter and twisted beyond understanding or people who simply don’t understand what supporting and watching football means to people.

              satchmo76 wrote: It might have been better if they'd been told a month ago that they would be sitting this one out, but that would require an SFA with balls. Further delay gives the impression that Rangers are holding the game to ransom.

              In a sane world, the SFA would say "take these terms or fuck off."
              Or they could look at the situation and say enough is enough, you’re in the bottom league, you’ve hardly any players, had no pre-season and the worst possible preparation for the season ahead. Here’s your licence to play, lets draw a line under the past and start working together to improve the future. Just a thought.
              Surely it is the SPL that are holding the game to ranson, again, not Rangers?

              It’s in no one’s interest that Rangers don’t exist this season. Only the most hate-filled can actually want that to happen. The ‘sporting integrity’ so many demanded came to pass, Rangers have been placed where they should be; in the bottom division. The time has come to leave us alone though, let us lick our wounds and rebuild our club. There is no way we are looking at some glorious procession through the leagues, the club remains riven with strife internally, the owners are disliked and mistrusted by the support, others are still waiting in the wings to take advantage (it’s reported today that Brian Kennedy has made another bid for the club), the team needs completely rebuilt as does the club. That won’t be an easy thing to do and it will take time.

              One thing that made me realise just how far through the looking glass we’ve gone is that we’ve got a board of directors who are desperate for a vote of confidence from our manager.

              Comment


                #57
                Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                I think the punishment junkies line is a tad harsh; if the NewCo argues for the right to benefit from the sale of past players, then they should also expect to be scrutinised for past contractual arrangements without prejudice.

                I can’t help but wonder if the NewCo are using this sticking point to SFA membership as a delaying tactic whilst the fate of Portsmouth remains undecided. The existence of one Franchise in Div 3/L1 may well prevent resistance to the NewCo, should it be their wish, to take over Portsmouth, sell off Fratton Park to some supermarket chain and relocate to Ibrox in time to face Bournemouth.

                From Pompey bells to Hell’s bells?

                Comment


                  #58
                  Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                  I thought the English FA had a rule that no club could be moved more than 50 miles from its current base? No English club is less than 50 miles from Govan, or 100 miles for that matter.

                  Rangers are not holding this up, the SPL are and their member clubs, look closer to home for your conspiracy theories.

                  Asking for a line to be drawn under this is hardly unfair in the circumstances, particularly when it's clear the SFA are as shambolic and corrupt as the SPL.

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                    I don't think there is any way that Rangers franchising Portsmouth could happen for this season. Portsmouth have two buyers, but neither are prepared to take on the liability for the player contracts. Anything that happens to them over the next couple of weeks is nothing to do with the Rangers situation.

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                      #60
                      Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                      Again with the "illegal" nonsense and the rubbish about having been "punished" by the simple application of rules which apply to everyone.

                      As it goes, I don't see any need for any restrictions on singing players except one that says "show us you can afford the wages first". That would go for all clubs, at all times, mind.

                      Rangers are Rangers, and if there are further offences proved against Rangers then any sanctions have to be taken against Rangers, don't they? That's not to say that any such sanctions shouldn't take account of the position Rangers now find themselves in.

                      (If Rangers were now supporter-trust-owned, I'd have a different view. But I see no reason for football to help Green to make money)

                      Comment


                        #61
                        Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                        Aberdeen Fan Rushes To Rangers Defence Shocker! (Well partially at least)

                        Okay, I've gorged myself at the bountiful table of schadenfreude at Rangers expense as much as the next non-bluenose, but I don't get how the SFA can pile sanctions on Sevco FC.
                        "Punishments" were applicable to the soon-to-be-liquidated Rangers FC - the 10 point deduction, the £160K fine, and the 1 year transfer embargo (which was appealed).

                        As far as I'm concerned as soon as the club / company formerly known as Rangers was liquidated, the capacity for "punishment" was removed.
                        The 3 year ban from European football is a consequence of liquidation, not a punishment. It's in the rules.
                        Starting again in Division 3 is also a consequence of liquidation. The club / company that was elected to the SFL is a new entity. The situation got muddled with ridiculous media talk of demotion to the 1st division, when in fact they should have been talking about how Sevco were being granted 2 automatic promotions.

                        So Sevco should be granted a license to play, and the ability to sign whomsoever they wish, free from the baggage of their former incarnation.
                        But that maybe doesn't satisfy either side?

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                          #62
                          Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                          The problem with stating that "The club / company that was elected to the SFL is a new entity" is that it's clearly carrying a brand name, history and fan base into the SFL so the baggage is there.

                          Infact, reading back, Janik made that same point last night. I don't know why even non-Bluenoses don't get it.

                          To repeat his question, why admit Rangers to SFL3 if they are not infact carrying the benefits of Rangers?

                          Comment


                            #63
                            Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                            TonTon wrote: Again with the "illegal" nonsense and the rubbish about having been "punished" by the simple application of rules which apply to everyone.
                            Well, not as such. The court case showed that the SFA rules allowed only three levels of punishment for the infractions committed around the reporting of Whyte's ownership. £100,000 fine, suspension from the SFA or expulsion from the SFA. The transfer ban was not a punishment laid out as an alternative for he tribunal, which is why it got overturned.
                            Reading between the lines of this report especially the quotes by Green regarding 'reluctantly accepting...if the alternative is no football', I speculate that someone in the SFA has told Rangers that a £100,000 fine is clearly inadequate punishment due tot he gravity of the offence, and if they force the SFA to abide by it's rules then it will have no choice but to suspend Rangers for at least a year. So it may actually be in Rangers interests to accept a punishment that isn't mandated in the rules.

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                              #64
                              Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                              Clearly the transfer embargo was outwith the SFA's rules. Bleating about its being "an illegal punishment" is a childish distortion. And, as you point out, given the sanctions available, it's likely to be best for Rangers to take the embargo.

                              As far as I can see, that is the only sanction which has been imposed. Rangers fans can be angry about the consequences of their club's actions, putting them out of the SPL and out of European competition. Those aren't punishments.

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                                #65
                                Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                "Bleating"? Who is fucking bleating?

                                When a court decides something is unlawful then to most normal people that makes it illegal. It's not a 'childish distortion' it's a statement of fact. It's important for a couple of reasons. Firstly because it once again shows how football still believes itself to be above the law, a thought process that frankly helped get us into this mess and secondly it demonstrates how the governing bodies are making this up as they go along. That's unacceptable, particularly at this late stage in the process. It is not that long ago a leading referee was forced to resign for 'lying' about why he'd made a correct decision on the park, Regan, Doncaster and the rest who run the SPL and SFA have been shown to lie, bully and distort reality for what can only be personal gain on a regular basis. Yet I've still to see the concerted media pressure to get them to resign. Don't tell me I'm making childish distortions, it's arguably the single most important point in this whole sorry mess.

                                The position Rangers currently find themselves in, demoted down 4 divisions, no first team squad, only 450 season tickets sold and still no licence to play on top of all the other childish distortions I could mention, is surely deterrent for any other club or director thinking of using the PAYE deductions as working capital.
                                Believe me we've been punished, whether it was imposed from elsewhere or self-inflicted is hardly relevant.

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                                  #66
                                  Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                  I'll join Max in defending them here. Excelelnt post Max - let them get on with it from here on in.

                                  Maybe we can concentrate now on clearing idiots like Doncaster and Regan from the game to begin giving it some credibility back.

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                    "Bleating"? Who is fucking bleating?
                                    I guess anyone objecting more than once to the same thing can be seen as bleating if one is in a bad enough mood. Sorry for the personal angle there.

                                    (It isn't "an illegal punishment". An illegal punishment would be a punishment that was against the law. Like killing someone, for example. Or cutting off a finger. It was a sanction which the SFA didn't have the power to impose, and therefore its imposition was unlawful. Illegal if you like.

                                    As has been noted, the embargo was imposed because they didn't want to throw Rangers out. Which is why Rangers are going to accept the embargo)

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                      Believe me we've been punished, whether it was imposed from elsewhere or self-inflicted is hardly relevant.
                                      On the contrary, that's totally relevant.

                                      If I decide I want to run someone over in my car, and in the process of doing so I also get badly injured, write off my vehicle and then see £50,000 life savings, which I'd been keeping in my boot, fly out on impact and land in the nearby river, I can't then claim to the judge when I'm in court that I've been punished enough and should be given no jail term for my actions. Just because I've deservedly suffered some nasty consequences doesn't mean I shouldn't also be punished for my law-breaking in the usual way.

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                        I don't understand the point of sevco facing a transfer embargo. They're an entirely different club, with only four players. How are they going to fulfil fixtures if they can't sign players?

                                        The SFL have acted on the principle that this is a new club, and as such needed to start in the third division. This seems like a reasonable enough position to adopt. It seems to have some ground in legal reality, and it is something that everyone can gather around.

                                        The SFA and the SPL seem to have thought that this was still rangers, when even considering whether they should remain in the SPL, or even be given two free promotions. If they want to punish rangers for the shit they did, then take away some trophies or something. You should at least try to punish the entity that did the stuff.

                                        They have to all agree about one way of looking at this or the whole thing is going to end in clearly identifiable and predictable disaster.

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                          The planned embargo won't cover this transfer window, Berba. It's the next two. So they can sign a team for this season and next, but they are stuck with any mistakes made until January 2014.

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                                            #71
                                            Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                            They are not an entirely different club and they have plenty of players.

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                              TonTon wrote: As it goes, I don't see any need for any restrictions on singing players

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                                                #73
                                                Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                                Nice one!

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                                                  #74
                                                  Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season



                                                  Former Scotland Internationalist Craig Beattie(age 28) and former Scotland Hopeful Ian Black(age 27) train with Sevco ahead of a mooted signing. Subject to SFA licence being granted, which is expected to hapen tomorrow.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Scottish Football 2012 - 2013 Season

                                                    http://eturnkeysec3340002378c9.users.site2you.com/content/sitenewsreadmore/infobox/news/template/default/active_id/1027

                                                    Here you go and it must be true, it's from Di Stefano, that shining beacon of truth and justice.

                                                    Interesting stuff though and probably some truth here. But why are they always ‘Top’ Mossad agents? Some of them must be sh*te. Even just a little jaded. But no, always ‘crack’ or ‘elite’. One thing is for sure, CW is a ‘top’ ‘crack’ elite’ fraudster although it would appear he woke up one morning with an elk’s head in his bed with a note saying “pay Dimitri” pinned to it. Unlike most of his other debts, he seems to have coughed up that one.

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