Broken & Late Ltd: Britain's Railways

[Tactical Genius]

"Cost spiraling from £15 to £75 Million. If that was in Africa, we would have the chin stroking Guardianistas lamenting about endemic corruption and graft on the continent. But in the UK it is called "mismanagement". Personally, I think trans are a complet waste of time and money that could be better spent on a functioning train and Bus system.
But busses and trains are not sexy enough for these cities that try and look "European".

[wittoner]

There's a typo in that post that could get you in some bother if quoted out of context TG.

[Tubby Isaacs]

"Cost spiraling from £15 to £75 Million. If that was in Africa, we would have the chin stroking Guardianistas lamenting about endemic corruption and graft on the continent. But in the UK it is called "mismanagement". Personally, I think trans are a complet waste of time and money that could be better spent on a functioning train and Bus system.
But busses and trains are not sexy enough for these cities that try and look "European".

It's not a tram. It's a tram-train. Schemes like this mean could that people who would have to take a bus and train (and who therefore think "fuck it, using the car instead) would be able to do whole journeys by the tram-train. It's potentially game changing.

It's not called graft and corruption for the good reason that it isn't graft and corruption. The Guardian don't seem all that interested in African rail projects.

[Gangster Octopus]

London, have another £350,000,000. After all, it's only one day's payment to the EU...

[Tubby Isaacs]

Surprised the government didn't make London borrow the money itself.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Leader of London Assembly Conservatives Gareth Bacon blamed Mr Khan for the delay.

"Crossrail is a subsidiary of TfL and it is a sad state of affairs when the government has to bail out the mayor who was apparently asleep on the job," he added.

That's not all that much responsibility for the mayor if he's got oversight of something that's got a subsidiary building Crossrail.

I don't particularly rate Khan but the London Tories are as laughably bad as you'd expect a bunch who chose Shaun Bailey to be. One of them was blaming Khan for not arguing that the EU shouldn't shut itself off from the City. Me neither.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Tories are laughably bad in Essex too. Time for train company boss to resign because of engineering work on the line, says straight-talking common sense rightwinger.

https://twitter.com/BBCEssex/status/1050775253927030784

[Pérou Flaquettes]

The Tories are laughably bad in Essex too.

But where are they any good Tubby?

[longeared]

It's not a tram. It's a tram-train. Schemes like this mean could that people who would have to take a bus and train (and who therefore think "fuck it, using the car instead) would be able to do whole journeys by the tram-train. It's potentially game changing.

I'm not sure what market there is for people wanting to go from Rotherham to beyond central Sheffield on the tram network, particularly students and football excepted. Equally I don't expect many Sheffielders to go and sample the manifold delights of Parkgate Retail World. As you say though it becomes another journey option for the Rotherham - Meadowhall - Sheffield route and potentially it can shift people out of cars. Rotherham to Parkgate is a notorious road traffic bottleneck at weekends thanks to a railway bridge, this is now going to ship people in much quicker. Really it should become the mode of choice for people going into central Sheffield. It's well known that people will use trams that won't consider buses - more pleasant, more modern, easier for pushchair access - and it's quicker and more likely to stick to timetable too. It's about the same time as the train though it has to be remembered that the station in Sheffield is a little out of the centre while tram-train goes right into the heart of the city. Tram-trains are modern and not crappy old 142 DMUs. They've the same frequency (three each way per hour) and they'll actually run on Saturdays - we've had no significant train service here on Saturdays since mid-August thanks to the interminable Northern / RMT dispute. Save the (unlikely) possibility of the dispute being resolved there won't be a full Saturday service until mid-November at the earliest and word is the RMT will be out every Saturday for the rest of the year and the whole of Christmas week too. The only slight drawback the tram-train user has is that they shut down earlier in the evening.

As for the project itself, it was first announced back in 2009 with the intention of having tram-trains running a couple of years later. Some audit said it was a "textbook example of how not to manage a rail project". It's not a surprise to anyone who recalls pretty much the same bodies being involved in the rebuild of Rotherham station in 2010. That was meant to take ten months but ended up lasting three times that, went way over budget as well. A few years on it's also apparent that said rebuild used rather cheap and shoddy materials as the whole thing looks tired and is fraying at the edges. The Northern Powerhouse eh?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I was talking more about tram-trains generally being possible gamechangers, rather than locally. It's been a "learn on the job" for this sort of scheme, rather than for Rotherham/Sheffield's benefit (I think I can hear somebody saying "tell us about it!"). I hope it does change games locally, and that if it doesn't, the powers that be at least take that into account it might not have been the ideal location when they look at tram trains for other places. And that the same powers don't say "fuck this area, they've already had £75m".

I see somebody coined the phrase "Rotherham Renaissance" in connection with that cheap upgrade.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Actually, haven't the government pulled a fast one with Crossrail? London gets a loan. Where's the contribution from Berkshire and Essex then?

[Gangster Octopus]

Up yours the North. Have some more money London...

[Tubby Isaacs]

There was, in fairness, a reasonable attempt to raise the original budget directly from London. I make it that only the direct grant to Crossrail and the Network Rail money are from the UK government, so that's more than half from London. Better than these things have been in the past, I think. But all that much comfort to other places with shit trains.

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/about-us/funding

The Evening Standard, if you can trust it, seems to think this bailout is a loan. So it should be.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't say that every area where a project overruns should pick up the bill, of course.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

There was, in fairness, a reasonable attempt to raise the original budget directly from London. I make it that only the direct grant to Crossrail and the Network Rail money are from the UK government, so that's more than half from London. Better than these things have been in the past, I think. But all that much comfort to other places with shit trains.

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/about-us/funding

The Evening Standard, if you can trust it, seems to think this bailout is a loan. So it should be.

So does the BBC -

"Under the new deal the Greater London Authority (GLA) will borrow up to £1.3bn from the Department for Transport, and provide an extra £100m itself.

The GLA will repay this loan through business rates."

[Big Boobs and FIRE!]

In my previous role I had the absolute displeasure of having to deal with the senior level positions at Crossrail.

What was absolutely apparent from the start was that they didn't have any idea or interest in the railway part. They were a collection of civil engineers and tunnellers and that was their sole focus. At the same time they were self congratulating themselves in dedicated TV series about the holes they were digging, they were also ripping up large parts of the existing rail network that they would take over, but making an absolute disaster out of it. The engineering possessions they had on the live railway were shambolic, and any attempt to get the higher echelons at Crossrail to take some ownership were met with a wall of silence, through an equal measure of uninterest and zero knowledge in railway operations.

As time progressed, a significant number of colleagues were absorbed into Crossrail, either through TUPE or else by the exorbitant salaries they were offering. The immediate message that came back from these people was clear; Crossrail was fucked. The railway operations part of the schemes plans were almost none existent. The costings and the timings were fantasy. New fleets of trains, on a new line, and most importantly, a radical new (completely unproven) signalling system was meant to be assembled and in place with resources and deadlines that would be struggled to be achieved if it was a Hornby model railway.

Therefore, within the industry, the delays and cost over runs have been known about for a number of years. The problem has been that no one senior will put their name to it, so it means no one has actually gone to the effort of working out exactly how much it will cost and when it will actually be ready for service.

So expect a few more of these announcements.

Oh, and probably some hideous operational incidents when it dies finally operate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

So does the BBC -

"Under the new deal the Greater London Authority (GLA) will borrow up to £1.3bn from the Department for Transport, and provide an extra £100m itself.

The GLA will repay this loan through business rates."

Cheers. Not exactly encouraging for future transport in London.

[Tubby Isaacs]

In my previous role I had the absolute displeasure of having to deal with the senior level positions at Crossrail.

What was absolutely apparent from the start was that they didn't have any idea or interest in the railway part. They were a collection of civil engineers and tunnellers and that was their sole focus. At the same time they were self congratulating themselves in dedicated TV series about the holes they were digging, they were also ripping up large parts of the existing rail network that they would take over, but making an absolute disaster out of it. The engineering possessions they had on the live railway were shambolic, and any attempt to get the higher echelons at Crossrail to take some ownership were met with a wall of silence, through an equal measure of uninterest and zero knowledge in railway operations.

As time progressed, a significant number of colleagues were absorbed into Crossrail, either through TUPE or else by the exorbitant salaries they were offering. The immediate message that came back from these people was clear; Crossrail was fucked. The railway operations part of the schemes plans were almost none existent. The costings and the timings were fantasy. New fleets of trains, on a new line, and most importantly, a radical new (completely unproven) signalling system was meant to be assembled and in place with resources and deadlines that would be struggled to be achieved if it was a Hornby model railway.

Therefore, within the industry, the delays and cost over runs have been known about for a number of years. The problem has been that no one senior will put their name to it, so it means no one has actually gone to the effort of working out exactly how much it will cost and when it will actually be ready for service.

So expect a few more of these announcements.

Oh, and probably some hideous operational incidents when it dies finally operate.

Ouch.

One of those "nobody knew, everybody knew" things. Very worrying.

[Paul S]

What was absolutely apparent from the start was that they didn't have any idea or interest in the railway part. They were a collection of civil engineers and tunnellers and that was their sole focus. At the same time they were self congratulating themselves in dedicated TV series about the holes they were digging, they were also ripping up large parts of the existing rail network that they would take over, but making an absolute disaster out of it. The engineering possessions they had on the live railway were shambolic, and any attempt to get the higher echelons at Crossrail to take some ownership were met with a wall of silence, through an equal measure of uninterest and zero knowledge in railway operations.

It's strange you say that BB&F because I have heard a similar thing said about the engineers at the old National Coal Board (NCB). Basically, the mining engineers went for all the difficult coal to get out as that was more interesting for them, leaving the easy to get for another day. This made the colliery run at a loss and caused it to close when it should have been running at a profit. In other words engineers, geologists and tunnellers giving free reign went for what they found interesting and screwed the miners as a result.

Talking of being screwed, the money for crossrail has to come from somewhere and it looks like it will come from the budgets for cycling, walking, buses etc.

Do you still have to sit in one of those telephone booths when you go to sign on?

[Big Boobs and FIRE!]

Log entry of the day.

[SouthdownRebel]

Ha, brilliant!

[Amor de Cosmos]

Sometime in late Spring we'll traveling from Aberdeen to London (and back.) I'm really looking forward to this as I love long train journeys and seven hours is long by UK standards. We'll be on Britrail passes but I'm not sure whether to get a sleeper or not, also how much more expensive it would be. Has anyone done this trip either overnight or in daylight?

[Capybara]

Sometime in late Spring we'll traveling from Aberdeen to London (and back.) I'm really looking forward to this as I love long train journeys and seven hours is long by UK standards. We'll be on Britrail passes but I'm not sure whether to get a sleeper or not, also how much more expensive it would be. Has anyone done this trip either overnight or in daylight?

I'd certainly recommend doing the trip in daylight in one direction at least. There's some beautiful coastal scenery on the way down from Aberdeen as far (almost) as Newcastle by which time you are only three hours from London. Make sure you book your seat as the trains can get very busy and ensure you are on the left-hand side facing the direction of travel going south for the best views.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Cheers. Yeah. Seven hours is a bit short for a sleeper anyway. I do always book seats, saves a lot of hassle in the long run, though it's hard to know which side of the train the seats are on isn't it?

[Fussbudget]

The East Coast website lets you see where the seats you're booking are in the carriage and the direction of travel, so you should be able to get a seat on the right side of the train.

I would also travel first class if the tickets are not too expensive (if you book in advance they're sometimes barely more expensive than standard class) as it's significantly more comfortable on East Coast trains especially for a journey that length, and you also get free food and drink (although the food went downhill when Virgin took over the line, and bizarrely even further downhill when it was brought back under public ownership.)

A couple of friends have done London to Edinburgh in the sleeper train and were really unimpressed, though I'm afraid I can't really remember why. I think they expected a higher level of Agatha Christie-style exotic luxury than they got.