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Broken & Late Ltd: Britain's Railways

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    Edinburgh Council is taking dogs abuse from drivers for the 20mph speed limit in the city centre. A congestion charge would see them pilloried. Edinburgh might not have much of an urban train system, and the half tram line will be a white elephant until it’s expanded into Leith and a high density population. It does however have a great bus network (best outside London?) that goes pretty much everywhere, in clean buses for a reasonably cheap fare. At least car wielding Weegies have the excuse of the absolutely honking bus cowboy operators that take the piss in areas without a connection to the rail network or subway. Driving in Embra city limits just feels contrary and reactionary.

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      Yeah, you choose your battles.

      Something called the Bus Services Act was passed this year, which apparently makes bus oversight much more like London. Manchester is very interested.

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        Yeah how Edinburgh managed to retain council control over buses is something I’ve never been able to work out at all. 20 years ago Glasgow had a great bus network, even if they were all painted a hideous municipal orange. But at some point in the Blairy Make It New after I scarpered to the sun, Glasgow got three competing companies gouging customers, cutting routes and making Union St into the most polluted urban area in Britain (just about every fucking bus from the south side goes up or idles on that fucking street).

        So bus usage is falling even as suburban rail explodes, and of course, car usage is increasing ffs. And the fuckers refuse to properly engage with an integrated travel card that would include rail and subway use as well. A shabby fleet still belching out pure diesel like the more knackered black cabs outside Central Station.
        Last edited by Lang Spoon; 02-12-2017, 18:19.

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          I don't know why Edinburgh would be so different. Maybe the one operator and it's cross-network passes reached a certain level that it's not worth others running buses to try and pinch trade. If a bus turns up and tries to sell you a cash fare when you've got a pass, and you're reasonably confident a bus you can use a pass on is coming soon, you're not going to fork out for the extra single. They give up and go away.

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            Special treatment for the semi capital? Or aye, maybe just the compact geographically constrained nature of Embra left Stagecoach etc in a bad place trying to compete with council owned Lothian Buses. Strathclyde Transport sprawled out for dozens of miles by comparison, easy meat for the vulture bastards maybe.

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              This is Cardiff Bus's network.



              That looks pretty decent, and they've had smart cards since 2009, I see. I don't know if others try and pinch the business though.

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                Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                Special treatment for the semi capital? Or aye, maybe just the compact geographically constrained nature of Embra left Stagecoach etc in a bad place trying to compete with council owned Lothian Buses. Strathclyde Transport sprawled out for dozens of miles by comparison, easy meat for the vulture bastards maybe.
                That could be right. Greater Manchester is like Strathclyde, with huge numbers of operators.

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                  First Bus apparently took over the (the originally Strathclyde regional) council owned (but constrained by legislation from giving investment) Strathclyde Bus in 96, ten years after the tories created the deregulated neutered thing in the first place.

                  Whereas Edinburgh seems to have retained control of the buses like it ain’t no thing, Lothian buses is wholly owned by the 4 councils that have services run through their boundaries (the old Lothian Regional Council).
                  Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-12-2017, 03:50.

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                    Yeah, the Edinburgh bus system is fairly decent. And you can pay by coins, which is handy when you are visiting. The buses are so good that nobody bothers with the useless tram.

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                      Euston still completely out of commission (as far as I can tell) due to an overnight "dewirement" near Wembley.

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                        Is that theft of the copper wire?

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                          That's usually what it means, yes. National Rail reporting that trains are now running, after repairs to over 500m of overhead wiring.

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                            On this occasion it wasn't thieving, though - a train snagged and brought down the cable on Friday evening. One of mrs b's friends stayed in our spare room Friday night, as her train from Euston to Manchester was cancelled (she got home via an alternative route yesterday).

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                              Originally posted by antoine polus View Post
                              Yeah, the Edinburgh bus system is fairly decent. And you can pay by coins, which is handy when you are visiting. The buses are so good that nobody bothers with the useless tram.
                              5.38m users last year, and an unexpected surplus made. That would be considered a great success if it weren't overshadowed by the disastrous construction.

                              It's generally accepted that trams will get people out of cars who won't give them up for buses.

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                                It takes 40 minutes from the airport to the end of the line. You’d be quicker on the bus. So far there’s not a huge point to it, until they finish the bloody thing and it’s not just serving the business park commuters/folk interchanging from the Bathgate line/East coast line/Fife Circle. Get it to Newhaven at least, and it’ll become a proper competitor to the bus and car in parts of Embra where people actually live.

                                My sister lives in Pilton (in the shadow of Fettes syphillitic gothic nightmare Hogwarts like a sick class joke) and has not once had cause to take the tram. It pretty much does the square root of fuck all for most locals.
                                Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-12-2017, 16:12.

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                                  Trams aren't fast. I nearly died of boredom going from Croydon to Wimbledon on Tramlink. And I don't like all the wires.

                                  But people use them, and are using them in Edinburgh, clearly. Transport systems aren't only for locals, not anywhere. As long as locals don't get left out, as they don't in Edinburgh, then the trams are doing a job.

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                                    They do seem incredibly slow in Embra though, certainly compared to Dublin’s Luas. It’s worst on the off road sections incredibly (doesn’t help there’s some weird twisting bends through current wasteland (imagining this is to do with zoned land).
                                    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 03-12-2017, 16:38.

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                                      How else would you get from East Croydon to Wimbledon in 24 minutes?

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                                        By the old BR line, if it were up to me. But luckily it isn't, because Tramlink's been a great success.

                                        Subjectively, I was probably comparing it to other journeys I make around London by train.
                                        Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 03-12-2017, 17:01.

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                                          Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                          They do seem incredibly slow in Embra though, certainly compared to Dublin’s Luas. It’s worst on the off road sections incredibly (doesn’t help there’s some weird twisting bends through current wasteland (imagining this is to do with zoned land).
                                          It might be. You can understand "sub-optimal" bits coming about because of the circumstances surrounding the construction. Maybe the trams' financial success, if it continues, will make the case for some remodelling to save journey times. It won't look so much like good money after bad.

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                                            In cities where trams have not been around for generations there is a definite issue with riders thinking that they should be as fast as trains (and therefore finding trams slow), rather than comparing them to busses.

                                            Cities like Milano, which always kept their trams, seem notably less prone to this issue, which makes me think that it will ebb with time.

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                                              I don't know it that's a problem beyond me and a few heavy rail "heads", Ursus. People are riding them in good numbers over here. Even Birmingham's Metro, the one that looked like a dud for years, has picked up. They do what buses do- stop a lot and not get up much of a head of steam- but people who don't like buses are OK with them.

                                              I think it's because we haven't had them that they feel modern and cosmopolitan. From what Spoony says, a local arriving back home at Edinburgh Airport heads for the bus. If a tourist or business traveller heads there, they probably go for the tram and thinks "this place is all right".

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                                                If I fly to Edinburgh, I'll inwardly thank Spoony for the advice and get the bus, very happily.

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                                                  Surely a heavy rail head wouldn't be flying to Edinburgh?

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                                                    I might be these days, from South Wales. But wouldn't have done from London. Except for the once I did, in 2002, during the England v Brazil game.

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