John Peel Day

[E10 Rifle]

John Peel Day

And for all its many faults, it was the flagship pop music show of the world's greatest public service broadcaster, which I think ought to have weighed more heavily with a bunch of lefties.

Wyatt got my point, even if Calvert didn't.

I like the Clash - though was a bit too young to get into them at the time - I just cannot see what particular point was being made, what cause was being advanced, by not going on one of the few pop music shows actually on telly at the time.

If you've got something to say, you should be seeking to say it to as many people as possible. Otherwise, you're just posturing.

[Edie St Pierre]

John Peel Day

The first time I ever heard of The Clash was on Christmas Day when I was 8.

My brother had mixed our presents up, so I got 'Promises' by The Buzzcocks and my sister got 'Tommy Gun' by The Clash. I preferred The Buzzcocks tune, but my sister started crying when she realised what had happened so I had to swap.

Anyway, that's the first thing I think of whenever anyone mentions The Clash.

[Lucia Lanigan]

John Peel Day

It's real enough, that apparent sense of superior achievement for knowing some facts about a thing. If you ever write about music you encounter it a lot. People get quite personally involved with liking music (or film, or whatever else), which is understandable, so there's already an element of emotions running high; but if you look at discussions on ILX or wherever there is a very apparent one-upmanship at play. Everyone's heard or known a little bit more than the previous poster, and is so far ahead of them that they don't even enjoy the artists in question anymore.

I think that's partly because internet's an archival medium, really, so criticism easily gets derailed into cataloguing: if you agree with something, you've nothing to add; if the writer's missed a bit, you can add it; if they've got a fact wrong you can publish a correction; if there's a similar artist they neglected to mention (probably intentionally, to make a piece or comment read well), you can mention them. And so the footnotes begin.

Tricky area. Most people I know are fairly casual about music, and when I mention that I don't like the thing they just mentioned, preferring this or that more original/convincing thing, I feel like I'm being one of those cunts. I'm not - it's pure enthusiasm for me, and the idea that anyone would think I was cool for having heard some records they haven't is laughable. But still, they say, "Lucia, you are a cunt."

Actually writing about it, though, that's a different thing again. Writing's just a way to engage with something more fully, focus on it, find out what you're really experiencing, and what you really think about it.

[MsD]

John Peel Day

Some people have great talent for writing and analysis that's fine and something to be proud of.

Briefly, as I'm working, that type have slways been around, (and punk was fun for the year or so before they caught onto it) Peelie didn't cause that, but his popularity encouraged it.

And there they are all now, with their blogs, mostly doing no harm, I suppose.

[Wyatt Earp]

John Peel Day

I'm the official champion point-getter on this thread: yay!

Lucia, I would doubt that anyone's opinion of you as a oneupman could survive actually meeting and talking to you. (For what they may be worth, like.) But I'm sure the kind of depth of knowledge that flows naturally from your enthusiasm could be misinterpreted like that, especially online, where misinterpretation of the least charitable kind is virtually the norm.

(It's a kind of false syllogism, I guess: music snobs know some arcane stuff, Lucia knows some arcane stuff, therefore Lucia is a music snob.)

[Lucia Lanigan]

John Peel Day

Nah, they do it in person but not on the internet actually. There's probably no getting away from it: tell people you don't like the thing they like, and they don't like it.

I think you're right MsD. You've put your finger on the things that put me off listening to John Peel, actually. There was always a real ale blokey consensus that he stood for real music on guitars, none of that pop crap. And as I came of age in the era of Kingmaker and all that shit, this was not appealing.

Whenever I actually listened to his programme it was nothing like that - 30 minutes of dancehall reggae, then some skronk, then some mad techno or something - but even the nickname "Peelie" was a bit football for my liking.

Writing, blogging, us lot here: they're forums that attract well-meaning enthusiasts and stifling bores alike, I suppose. It' such a thin line...

[Wyatt Earp]

John Peel Day

Between stupid and clever.

(Serial Spinal Tap quoters are the worst of all.)

[Edie St Pierre]

John Peel Day

I always saw him as the last gasp of that Lord Reith thing of public service broadcasting being there to inform as well as entertain.

I thought he was important in that respect, because we're entertained to fucking death these days.

[Wyatt Earp]

John Peel Day

I think one of the cool things about John Peel was precisely that: you couldn't easily pin him down and say he was this or that. Even back in the early 80s, he would always get bewildered NME-heads writing in asking what he was doing playing NWOBHM acts like Iron Maiden--to say nothing of the serial moaning all that reggae used to cause.

He was often a bit anti-chart, though, to be fair. More than a bit. Most notoriously, he failed utterly to get what Bolan was doing after he replaced "yrannosaurus" with a dot. I think this thawed a bit in the mid-80s, but it never quite melted.

[Wyatt Earp]

John Peel Day

Mat wrote:

I always saw him as the last gasp of that Lord Reith thing of public service broadcasting being there to inform as well as entertain.

I thought he was important in that respect, because we're entertained to fucking death these days.

Exactly exactly exactly.

Did you see my and Harry's conversation on FB about Bob Harris and the New York Dolls? We ended up concluding that much as Harris had called it wrong artistically, he'd done a properly Reithian thing in (a) inviting a band he hated on to his show; (b) caring enough, and taking pop and rock seriously enough, to have an opinion in the first place; (c) being brave and honest enough to voice it in their presence. No fucker on the telly, and about three people on the radio (Cocker/Laverne/Baker: who else?) would do that today.

[Edie St Pierre]

John Peel Day

According to his biography, which I only skim-read to be fair, the Marc Bolan thing was personal. They'd been close friends, then they lost and he seemed to have taken that quite badly. He loved all the early T.Rex tunes.

[Edie St Pierre]

John Peel Day

Why at Last! wrote:

Mat wrote:

I always saw him as the last gasp of that Lord Reith thing of public service broadcasting being there to inform as well as entertain.

I thought he was important in that respect, because we're entertained to fucking death these days.

Exactly exactly exactly.

Did you see my and Harry's conversation on FB about Bob Harris and the New York Dolls? We ended up concluding that much as Harris had called it wrong artistically, he'd done a properly Reithian thing in (a) inviting a band he hated on to his show; (b) caring enough, and taking pop and rock seriously enough, to have an opinion in the first place; (c) being brave and honest enough to voice it in their presence. No fucker on the telly, and about three people on the radio (Cocker/Laverne/Baker: who else?) would do that today.

Ooh, no. Missed that. Home PC is on the fritz, so I can only use the net at work, and my firm threaten death and disaster on anyone caught using Facebook.

Completely agree though.

There's a hilarious clip of Bob Harris introducing Sham 69, which has me on the floor with laughter too.

[Bored Of Education]

John Peel Day

LL
Everyone's heard or known a little bit more than the previous poster, and is so far ahead of them that they don't even enjoy the artists in question anymore.

I hate that

MsD
Briefly, as I'm working, that type have slways been around, (and punk was fun for the year or so before they caught onto it)

I can only imagine

The thing about how we learnt about/got our music is that it dates you in the same way as what Grange Hill you watched or who was presenting Blue Peter.

For me, it was TOTP>Smash Hits>Sounds>NME>MM>Tommy Vance>Peel>Kerrang>Tube>Raw>ITV Chart Show>Raw Power.

Due to them being too late/short running/obscure/infrequent, I didn't or don't regard TOGWT/Oxford Road Show/Rock Goes to College/Snub/Def in the same way.

The phenomenon that broke all this up and changed that sort of event TV/Radio music watching, of course, was MTV and I missed out on that completely as I didn't have cable/satellite and was left with the decline of all those programmes and magazines but I had moved on somewhat myself. Of course, now the internet has even surpasses all that.

[Calvert]

John Peel Day

E10 Rifle wrote:

And for all its many faults, it was the flagship pop music show of the world's greatest public service broadcaster, which I think ought to have weighed more heavily with a bunch of lefties.

Wyatt got my point, even if Calvert didn't.

I like the Clash - though was a bit too young to get into them at the time - I just cannot see what particular point was being made, what cause was being advanced, by not going on one of the few pop music shows actually on telly at the time.

If you've got something to say, you should be seeking to say it to as many people as possible. Otherwise, you're just posturing.

Ive absolutely no idea what relevance a bunch of lefties have concerning a tv music chart show.

Maybe you don't see the Clash's point regarding their refusal to go on TOTP, not sure I do either having signed to a major label, but I'm sure they had their reasons.
Do you not know what they are or do you just disagree fundamentally with people being able to choose their medium?

As for saying it to as many people as possible or you're just posturing, surely if it's your music you can do what the fuck you want with it?

[Amor de Cosmos]

John Peel Day

The thing about how we learnt about/got our music is that it dates you in the same way as what Grange Hill you watched or who was presenting Blue Peter.

For me, it was TOTP>Smash Hits>Sounds>NME>MM>Tommy Vance>Peel>Kerrang>Tube>Raw>ITV Chart Show>Raw Power.

Very true.

Mine: Luxy>Chess>Record Mirror>Motown/Stax>Radio Caroline/London>RSG>Elektra>Rolling Stone>

In the days before mediation became as diffused as it now is you did wear your influences like a badge, to a greater or lesser degree. Though I agree with MsD that it must often be really irritating for girls, for boys it is/was a way of establishing cultural territoriality and — through it — personal identity. I remember doing it up until I was about eighteen. For example I'd foist the first two Love albums on my friends, who hated them because they were wannabe folkies and would make me listen to hours of John Renbourn in return. I did genuinely want to share my enthusiasm with them but I was also asserting that on some nebulous but vital level this was a part of who I was going to be which made me different from them.

Of course if you're still playing this game when you're much past twenty then you might have issues.

[Bored Of Education]

John Peel Day

I know everything else but Luxy and RSG?

[Amor de Cosmos]

John Peel Day

Radio Luxembourg and Ready, Steady, Go!

[Bored Of Education]

John Peel Day

Ah, of course. Top notch credentials

[Benjm]

John Peel Day

Amor de Cosmos wrote:

Mine: Luxy>Chess>Record Mirror>Motown/Stax>Radio Caroline/London>RSG>Elektra>Rolling Stone>

I used to read Record Mirror in the 1980s, the chain running Smash Hits>RM>NME. At that point the features content was leaning towards indie (in the sense the term was used then) but you still got all the soul and Hi-NRG rundowns in the middle. It was quite a pleasing combination.

Anyway, a rush of nostalgia sent me across to Wikipedia to find out what became of James Hamilton where I discovered that the rights to the title were sold last year to...Giovanni di Stefano. Don't think I'll be rushing to the newsagent for the launch issue, should it ever appear.

[MsD]

John Peel Day

Not wanting to diss Mr Peel in any way, but the Cult/Myth of Peelie ... there were some other DJs playing interesting, challenging music on Radio 1, Annie Nightingale for one, although not many played screaming Belgians, nor patiently worked their way through quite so many demo tapes. Although as LL pointed out, screaming Belgians and real ale type students were only a small part of the mix, he did play rap and punk and glam. I first heard Bowie tracks on his show (on the radio), although most of my musical "education" came from my supercool big sisters (my big brothers had fairly rubbish taste in music).

[Amor de Cosmos]

John Peel Day

I used to read Record Mirror in the 1980s, the chain running Smash Hits>RM>NME. At that point the features content was leaning towards indie (in the sense the term was used then) but you still got all the soul and Hi-NRG rundowns in the middle. It was quite a pleasing combination.

In early to mid-60s it was the only trade paper to carry regular articles on soul and R&B, both US and UK. So Record Mirror was the first place I heard about Motown, Chicago Blues, Otis Redding. Also The Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Pretty Things and the London club scene in general. Back then Melody Maker was a rather dusty jazz based paper, and NME, Disc and others were pretty much Top 20 only.

Not wanting to diss Mr Peel in any way, but the Cult/Myth of Peelie ... there were some other DJs playing interesting, challenging music on Radio 1,

Yes, including in its early days, Kenny Everett.

[historyman]

John Peel Day

Lucia Lanigan wrote:

It's real enough, that apparent sense of superior achievement for knowing some facts about a thing. If you ever write about music you encounter it a lot.

As captured brilliantly by Jack Black in High Fidelity:

[Wyatt Earp]

John Peel Day

Great how nearly all the comments on that Youtube clip are Top Fives of Track 1, Side 1s.

[MsD]

John Peel Day

Nick Hornby captured that kind of character so well in High Fidelity. The protaganist is a fanboy who's never made music in his life, but feels superior to people in his record store who don't share his tastes; as though loving Marvin Gaye and Massive Attack makes you special in some way.

[Gangster Octopus]

John Peel Day

That's the only Hornby book I've ever read. I hated it. He slags off Oh, Mr. Porter!, the Arsenal loving twat.