Pulp aren't really all that

[Lucia Lanigan]

Pulp aren't really all that

Ace review by Neil Kulkarni on The Quietus today.

[Incandenza]

Pulp aren't really all that

Count me among the non-fans of This Is Hardcore. It's just not fun to listen to...with the exception of "Dishes," which I love.

[Ginger Yellow]

Pulp aren't really all that

So, anyone else planning to see them again at Brixton?

[E10 Rifle]

Pulp aren't really all that

Tried to get tickets this morning through the advanced web-list group, but they'd gone within five minutes. Will give it another go on Friday

[Edie St Pierre]

Pulp aren't really all that

I love Pulp.

I've never fully understood why their view of England is seen as retro either. I don't think the 70's ever really went away really. Not in England. And acrylic, wood-chip, Trebor Mints, traffic islands and formica all definately still exist.

[Edie St Pierre]

Pulp aren't really all that

The Trebor factory in East Ham.

Look at it, just look at it! It's like a building from the future or something.

[Incandenza]

Pulp aren't really all that

I don't like the bit at the top, and the other part on the roof, but the white wall with the black window frames. That looks awesome.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Pulp aren't really all that

I was more bothered when Jarvis himself started hanging around with the Hoxton rich, and even married some double-barreled posh woman. That felt like a betrayal.

well his mam was a tory councillor.....

[Bored Of Education]

Pulp aren't really all that

I'm quite relaxed about so many people failing to like or 'get' Pulp, because for a band whose very essence is tribal and oppositional

Is it?

[Benjm]

Pulp aren't really all that

Mat wrote:

The Trebor factory in East Ham.

Look at it, just look at it! It's like a building from the future or something.

It seems quite consistent with the Pulp worldview that, in true 1990s style, the Trebor Factory was converted into luxury apartments.

As SR suggests, Cocker's appeal diminished mightily as his persona deveoped from provincial outcast kicking back against the bullies to king of the ironic trucker's cap crowd.

[Mitch]

Pulp aren't really all that

Jarvis Cocker in a Baseball Cap? I would need to see evidence of that.

But even if you mean, more figuratively, "King Of The Hipsters", were Pulp ever the darlings of that lot?

[Calvert]

Pulp aren't really all that

Jarvis Cocker in a Baseball Cap? I would need to see evidence of that.

He'd then be feted as the man who reclaimed baseball caps for the hip from the great unwashed, the post modern genius of irony. Magazines would run features called 'The Cat in the Hat' hailing his return to form and calling him things like, essential
We really, really need you, Jarvis, more than oxygen.

He's a John Lydon-type character.He can talk any amount of old cobblers constantly contradicting himself just blah-blahing off the top of his head and people will still think he's a genius, not some eejit with a '70's fixation.
I suppose that's a kind of genius in itself.

[Benjm]

Pulp aren't really all that

Mitch wrote:

Jarvis Cocker in a Baseball Cap? I would need to see evidence of that.

But even if you mean, more figuratively, "King Of The Hipsters", were Pulp ever the darlings of that lot?

Yeah, I was thinking more of the 'King Of The Hipsters' thing than any specific William Hague style hat incidents.

It's more to do with Jarvis as an individual/media personality than Pulp, the band.

[Auntie Beryl]

Pulp aren't really all that

Bored of Education wrote:

I'm quite relaxed about so many people failing to like or 'get' Pulp, because for a band whose very essence is tribal and oppositional

Is it?

Sure it is. So many Pulp songs are a call to arms for, or a critique of, social groupings.

Mis-Shapes: "We'd like to go to town but we can't risk it".

I-Spy: "You can take your year in Provence and shove it up your arse".

Joyriders: "We can't help it, we're so thick we can't think".

Common People: "You are amazed that they exist".

Party Hard: "I used to try very hard to make friends with everyone on the planet".

And that's before getting into the interpersonal relationships stuff which often pits Cocker (as narrator) against a nemesis who is clearly identified as being *cough* in a different class: Babies, Pink Glove, etc.

[Come along, Min]

Pulp aren't really all that

Calvert W. McCutcheon wrote:

He'd then be feted as the man who reclaimed baseball caps for the hip from the great unwashed, the post modern genius of irony. Magazines would run features called 'The Cat in the Hat' hailing his return to form and calling him things like, essential
We really, really need you, Jarvis, more than oxygen.

He's a John Lydon-type character.He can talk any amount of old cobblers constantly contradicting himself just blah-blahing off the top of his head and people will still think he's a genius, not some eejit with a '70's fixation.
I suppose that's a kind of genius in itself.

Ha!..I don't mind Jarvis, but this aint far off.

[Calvert]

Pulp aren't really all that

I don't mind him either, like Lydon he can be amusing sometimes. It's just the important, and needing stuff I'll never understand.
He's just some punter who happens to be in a band shooting his mouth off at the end of the day.

[MsD]

Pulp aren't really all that

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

I'm also not bothered if a bunch of tossers miss the point of "Common People". I was more bothered when Jarvis himself started hanging around with the Hoxton rich, and even married some double-barreled posh woman. That felt like a betrayal.

To be fair to him .. well, firstly, you can't much help who you fall in love with.

And secondly, he did try to be a normal bloke for as long as he could. I had (non famous, quite poor) mates living down his street (Haberdasher Street) and when he first moved in he would be in the scruffy rundown local boozer, and local shop, and would trundle around on his bike. But, everywhere you spotted him, you would also spot people excitedly texting or calling and the local boozer became suddenly very full of people on the lookout for him .. and people would casually pretend to ignore him, or try to talk to him normally, "alright, Jarvis?", or just nod, but when you're out for a quiet drink and have dozens of people all surreptitiously looking at you .. it's not normal, however much everyone tries to pretend it is so. And so there's that barrier that makes normal interaction difficult. But he really did try to be normal; he really didn't give it the rockstar or even the English eccentric.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Pulp aren't really all that

and people would casually pretend to ignore him

Isn't that known as respectfully giving someone their privacy? If there's a famous person in any pub I'm drinking in, I'll have a quick ogle, nudge whoever's with me and then ignore, I didn't realise this was bad.

[MsD]

Pulp aren't really all that

I'm not suggesting anyone behaved at all badly, but there was just a lot of attention and this does feel a bit odd and make one feel self conscious. People often don't know how to act around famous people and end up fawning or being hostile, which is why the Groucho exists and why artists tend to flock together. People were generally nice and quite cool to Jarvis but 100s of people suddenly deciding they like that pub? He was the centre of attention whilst not courting it, at all.

[Calvert]

Pulp aren't really all that

and people would casually pretend to ignore him

How do you pretend to ignore someone?

Wasn't JC's whole thing all about playing the English eccentric?

[Spearmint Rhino]

Pulp aren't really all that

Bored of Education wrote:

I'm quite relaxed about so many people failing to like or 'get' Pulp, because for a band whose very essence is tribal and oppositional

Is it?

Yes. Outsiders versus the Popular. Deprived North versus Affluent South. Freaks and Geeks versus the Healthy and Fashionable. I mean, I could go on.

[historyman]

Pulp aren't really all that

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

Bored of Education wrote:

I'm quite relaxed about so many people failing to like or 'get' Pulp, because for a band whose very essence is tribal and oppositional

Is it?

Yes. Outsiders versus the Popular. Deprived North versus Affluent South. Freaks and Geeks versus the Healthy and Fashionable. I mean, I could go on.

I'm neither North or South, Freak or Geek, not particularly fashionable and I hope somewhat healthy.

What about the people outside of those stereotypes who simply weren't big fans of Pulp or Jarvis Cocker?

[Spearmint Rhino]

Pulp aren't really all that

historyman wrote:

Spearmint Rhino wrote:

Bored of Education wrote:

I'm quite relaxed about so many people failing to like or 'get' Pulp, because for a band whose very essence is tribal and oppositional

Is it?

Yes. Outsiders versus the Popular. Deprived North versus Affluent South. Freaks and Geeks versus the Healthy and Fashionable. I mean, I could go on.

I'm neither North or South, Freak or Geek, not particularly fashionable and I hope somewhat healthy.

What about the people outside of those stereotypes who simply weren't big fans of Pulp or Jarvis Cocker?

Like I say, no-one's saying you have to like or 'get' Pulp, and I'm quite relaxed about people not doing so.

[Bored Of Education]

Pulp aren't really all that

I wasn't really debating it, I just didn't get that particular vibe (for want of a better word) from them but I bow to everyone else's better knowledge.

People often don't know how to act around famous people and end up fawning or being hostile, which is why the Groucho exists and why artists tend to flock together.

Bollocks, is it. People go to the Groucho to (a) take coke (b) use an out-of-hours office (c) if they aren't famous, have a visceral thrill through being near famous people (c) if they are famous, moan about how they can't get a drink without civilians bothering them (d) and most importantly feel exclusive and away from the civilians which is the lure of any members club.

Oh, and (e) get a half-decent meal. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the place and it is an OK oasis to drink especially in the desert of decent places to drink that is SoHo but let us not have any pretensions of why it is there. It is to make people feel special

I have seen plenty of famous people and artists in normal bars who have been either not or minimally bothered by people and just haven't acted precious about it.

[MsD]

Pulp aren't really all that

Yes, and Jarvis was not acting precious about it, when Pulp was really hot, and so he had ever growing crowds around him when he was trying to have a quiet drink.

It is rubbish to pretend that most people are all terribly bored by, and act entirely naturally in the presence of, even mildly famous people. Some do, yeh, others don't, and it's a pain in the arse if you are not in the mood and even one person you don't know saunters up to you nonchalantly and chats to you like you're a regular guy. Only if you were a regular guy, they wouldn't have come up to you, they'd have left you alone.

Yes, some famous people show off, but a lot of them just want to do their job and relax when off duty, without having to talk to strangers, or being seen as rude if they snub them.

And ps, neither I nor my friends go to the Groucho to feel "special"; it's nothing great and there are a lot of swankier bars I prefer. But at least you can sit down in there.