Haye-Klitschko

[Ray de Galles]

Haye-Klitschko

I think it takes "an actual shit head" to invoke gang-rape to "generate excitement, sell tickets and get his opponents to get mad and throw away their game plan".

[Pants]

Haye-Klitschko

That line was totally out of order, I agree.

[Pants]

Haye-Klitschko

David Haye's message to fans on Twitter:

Thanks so much to all my fans for supporting me. It truly means so much. I did the best I could, but my best wasn't good enough. Sorry.

Wladamir was the better man last night. He did exactly what he needed to win the decision. He's a great fighter, and a hard man to beat. Respect.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Haye-Klitschko

Pants wrote:

Talk that Haye is an overblown cruiserweight is nonsense, too. He's taken the best a 17.5 stone heavyweight champ had to bring and never went down from a punch. Was Evander Holyfield an overblown cruiserweight?

Comparing Holyfield and Haye is like comparing Richard Pryor and Charlie Drake - they simply shouldn't be allowed in the same conversation. And Klitschko is a completely manufactured boxer who would struggle against any half-decent heavyweight with a brain. The fact that he is the best there is only adds weight to the fact that the current heavyweight division lacks class.

[Pants]

Haye-Klitschko

I wasn't directly comparing Haye to Holyfield, I was just pointing out that Holyfield also started out as a light heavyweight, moved up to cruiserweight and then up to heavyweight. No-one ever called him an overblown cruiserweight. Haye has beaten some good heavyweights, he's got lots of potential as a heavyweight but, for now, he's failed at a higher level. Way too easy to start chucking cheap shots at him.

Vicarious, your point about Klitschko is just wrong. He's fought some decent heavyweights of this era and beaten them. And I'd put money on him to beat lots of half-decent heavyweights from other eras. He's not an all-time great, but he's really good at using his strong points to his advantage. Looking to a past era, Mike Tyson beat loads of bums...but because he did it in dramatic fashion, people thought he was an amazing boxer. He wasn't.

If I was David Haye, I'd postpone the retirement, wait for my toe to heal, get back in the gym and try to sort out a pop at Alexander Potevkin.. That'd be a brilliant fight and if he could beat him it might give him the confidence to have another pop at Klitschko.

[Bored Of Education]

Haye-Klitschko

Haye's sportsmanlike talking up of Klitschko post-match was only after he had quite rightly been called on using his toe as an excuse.

Can't add much more to this than Harry has apart from what I have said elsewhere about Haye being a text-book of example of a promising amateur who has been ruined by the professional game.

Indeed, the whole ludicrous media rights of this fight is an example of the ongoing ruination of boxing by Sky. Hopefully the technical fuck-ups should see viewers ignoring future fights in their droves

[Pants]

Haye-Klitschko

Hi Bored. What do you mean about David Haye being "a text book example of a promising amateur who has been ruined by the professional game"?

(He got beaten a few times as an amateur, at light heavyweight and heavyweight. It was when he turned professional and started fighting at cruiserweight that his career started to take off.)

[Bored Of Education]

Haye-Klitschko

Basically, although he was sure of himself as an amateur, he wasn't cunt he turned into. Also I was genuinely impressed by him as an amateur and followed the start of his pro career but his career path has gone the way of many pros at the heavier weights.

[David Agnew]

Haye-Klitschko

Rogin en la butaca wrote:

As ever, I struggle to understand how "professional" boxing judges come to their decisions.

Obviously Klitschko won this won, by a mile, but the three judges scored him 8 rounds ahead, 10 rounds ahead and 6 rounds ahead. The latter one I'd have probably agreed with, but the discrepancy between 6 and 10 makes me wonder just what the fuck they're looking for (and what the fighters are meant to do to attract their 'votes').

The judges, although seated together have slightly different views of the fight. From one angle a punch may have looked to have landed, from another, it may not, or be obscured by the referee or the opponent. Referees can only give what they see, and of course, referees from different areas do have slightly views on what they vote for. Some will favour the boxer who has landed more punches (which was Klitschko for all but the 12th), some will favour the one with the more agressive attitude, regardless of what lands (which would give Haye the 3rd, 4th, 9th(?) and 11th), and some a mixture of the two. I gave Klitscho 8 rounds, Haye 2 and 2 even. With Klitscho's deduction, and Haye's "knockdown", I would have given the fight 117-111.

Escape from Alcaraz wrote:

Haye bitched about the refereeing and his broken toe. All part of the graceless nark he is.

In some respects he was right, the referee was terrible. he spent the whole week of the fight putting pressure on the referee Alex Ferguson style, that the ref favoured Haye in the first six rounds until Klitschko's trainer spoke to the ref, at which point, the ref buckled again, and started favouring Klitschko. Considering this was a Heavyweight unification fight, and therefore the biggest heavyweight fight since Lewis retired, it was spineless refereeing.

Pants wrote:

Talk that Bruno would've beaten Haye is utter nonsense.

Bruno would have mullered Haye. For all his jolly panto persona, Bruno was an intelligent, but vicious, ugly and downright dirty fighter. For all the moaning that Haye does about Klitschko, he wouldn't have coped with Bruno's tactics.

Vicarious Thrillseeker wrote:
[quote]Pants wrote:

Talk that Haye is an overblown cruiserweight is nonsense, too. He's taken the best a 17.5 stone heavyweight champ had to bring and never went down from a punch.

But, let's be honest, he tried to fight a cruiserweight's fight, and got outfought, but crucially out-thought. Haye's tactics were to essentially stand on the sponsors logo in the centre of the ring, and make Klitschko dance around him, but they were so obvious that Klitschko decided to do the same, and Haye couldn't move him, or take the middle. Tactically Klitschko played it to perfection, and broken toe or no broken toe, Klitschko's stamina didn't become an issue anywhere nearly as early as Haye planned it to.

Was Evander Holyfield an overblown cruiserweight?

Holyfield was a heavyweight figther in a cruiserweight's body. In the 50s, 60s and 70s both Holyfield and Haye would be considered Heavyweights, and while Holyfield would be considered not too far from Louis and Marcaino, Haye wouldn't be in Cooper's class. Haye only got heavyweight world championship fights because the US heavyweight scene is dead, he's charismatic and from the second biggest payperview market in boxing.

And Klitschko is a completely manufactured boxer who would struggle against any half-decent heavyweight with a brain. The fact that he is the best there is only adds weight to the fact that the current heavyweight division lacks class.

I think that's a little harsh. Klitschko is limited in some respects, but he has the brains to surround himself with trainers like Manny Steward.

Haye has beaten some good heavyweights, he's got lots of potential as a heavyweight but, for now, he's failed at a higher level.

Haye hasn't beaten a single good heavyweight. He's beaten:

Monte Barrett. A bum who lost three of his previous six fights, including being stopped in the second round by Cliff Couser (who had won one of his last six fights, and has lost all nine of his fights since).

Nikolay Valuev. The only World Champion who will make Primo Carnera look talented.

John Ruiz. This was an amazing feat when David Tua beat him in 30 seconds in 1996, it was still no mean feat when Evander Holyfield beat him in 2000, but by the time Haye beat him, Ruiz was 38 years old, and hadn't beaten a boxer worth of the name since he beat Andrew Golota in 2004 (and Golota was just out of retirement), and Hasim Rahman in 2003.

Audley Harrison. Who retired when the referee asked them to touch gloves.

He's beaten no-one. He chased the Klitschko fight because they were each other's biggest draws. And Haye couldn't afford to lose to a Helenius or a Chambers or an Adamek on the way.

[Borracho]

Haye-Klitschko

Or, to put it another way:

[David Agnew]

Haye-Klitschko

That's the worst Bob Dylan impression I've ever seen.