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    I've not abandoned it, but there's not a lot to say now they've abandoned the books and are rushing to a conclusion. Most of the intrigue and character work has either gone or become very heavy handed (even more so than the books were). The timing issues this season make any attempt to take it "seriously" pointless It's just set-up for action/battle sequences now. Still fun, but not really fruitful for discussion, I feel.

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      SPOILER:

      While it was pleasing to see a particularly annoying character (and actor) get the final cut last night, I'm not sure it was convincingly plotted. A good idea but needed a bit more time than it was given.

      The main plot was let down by the unlikelihood that Daenerys would believe Cersei's lie (unless the point is that we will find out they did not actually believe it). I also think that to be true to character, Cersei would have killed Jaime at the end there, not to mention Tyrion when she had the chance (but I would guess that both characters are too valuable to audience popularity to kill off, so they get more lives than a cat).

      The fight scene with Theon was very poor. Infact I've wanted Theon to die since almost the beginning of the series.
      Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 29-08-2017, 10:12.

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        I'm still enjoying this but increasingly characters act completely out-of-character purely because they need to to advance the plot to it's end game and there's a lot of rushing over things, partly, I guess, to stop you from thinking too much about the ever increasing size of the plotholes.

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          The "upped the ante" jokes online are good, mind you.

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            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
            SPOILER:

            While it was pleasing to see a particularly annoying character (and actor) get the final cut last night, I'm not sure it was convincingly plotted. A good idea but needed a bit more time than it was given.

            The main plot was let down by the unlikelihood that Daenerys would believe Cersei's lie (unless the point is that we will find out they did not actually believe it). I also think that to be true to character, Cersei would have killed Jaime at the end there, not to mention Tyrion when she had the chance (but I would guess that both characters are too valuable to audience popularity to kill off, so they get more lives than a cat).

            The fight scene with Theon was very poor. Infact I've wanted Theon to die since almost the beginning of the series.
            Theon is superfluous. Maybe they're setting him up for something.

            I guess she just won't kill her brothers. I don't find that out of character. She has convinced herself that she values her family, regardless, which is why she's so mad about Tyrion killing their father, even though he was a castiron prick who married her to Robert Baratheon.

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              It is all over the show, like (as my old mum would say) a mad woman's shit. When it was pinned to the books, there was a slow, relentless narrative with time to develop plot and character. Now it's just big 'fuck-off' moments delivered at the speed of light, and implausible plot lines - a bit like the second season of 'Homeland'. I'm still watching, but I'm sort of half way to giving it up

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                I watched it out of pure loyalty in the end.

                Found it all very disappointing, for the reasons already posted.

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                  I'm half convinced RR Martin has written himself into a corner, he's no idea how to properly deal with the fractal-like plot strands in his seemingly unedited books (one more reference to boiled leather armour and the book gets it) and is much more enjoying being feted at comic cons than actually working (he apparently can only write at home on his DOS word processor, fucks sake) on finishing something that was probably always going to have some hackneyed conclusion. I'd say he's given HBO the barest of sketches on where it was all going, and they're making a season 5 of the Wire mess from that. And of course Sansa and a few others seem to have taken a drastically different path from the books in plot and "character development".
                  Last edited by Lang Spoon; 31-08-2017, 19:11.

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                    Martin apparently has a couple of fan-fiction-type obsessives who he consults with to keep the plot lines and family loyalties all straight. I assume he's put so many crumbs down over the 6,000+ pages that he can't manage picking them all up.

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                      Originally posted by Vicarious Thrillseeker View Post
                      It is all over the show, like (as my old mum would say) a mad woman's shit. When it was pinned to the books, there was a slow, relentless narrative with time to develop plot and character. Now it's just big 'fuck-off' moments delivered at the speed of light, and implausible plot lines - a bit like the second season of 'Homeland'. I'm still watching, but I'm sort of half way to giving it up
                      I'm not sure what constitutes and impossible plot-line in a story about dragons and zombie armies, but I prefer the big fuck-off moments to the plodding, meandering, too-many-characters pace of the earlier stories. And its way better than Homeland season 2.

                      As I understand it, they've moved past the books and therefore are writing it more like a typical TV show without having to hit all the plot points from the book.

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                        Quite. Last week people were complaining about the army of the dead using massive chains to recover the dragon, while happily overlooking the army of the dead and the dragon.

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                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                          SPOILER:

                          While it was pleasing to see a particularly annoying character (and actor) get the final cut last night, I'm not sure it was convincingly plotted. A good idea but needed a bit more time than it was given.

                          The main plot was let down by the unlikelihood that Daenerys would believe Cersei's lie (unless the point is that we will find out they did not actually believe it). I also think that to be true to character, Cersei would have killed Jaime at the end there, not to mention Tyrion when she had the chance (but I would guess that both characters are too valuable to audience popularity to kill off, so they get more lives than a cat).

                          The fight scene with Theon was very poor. Infact I've wanted Theon to die since almost the beginning of the series.
                          I haven't watched this series yet, and can't quite be arsed to dive in, but if Aiden Gillen gets it I think I'll watch just for the Hammiest of wavering accent Actorly hammy finishes. He's like a prime slice of finest Jabugo, beyond phoning it in Hopkins even. I'm not even sure he has a convincing and not wandering accent of his own in that there real life, let alone in the talkies.

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                            Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                            As I understand it, they've moved past the books and therefore are writing it more like a typical TV show without having to hit all the plot points from the book.
                            I think that's my problem with it - it wasn't like all typical TV shows. And now it is. And I loved them being very close to the books.

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                              Originally posted by WOM View Post
                              Quite. Last week people were complaining about the army of the dead using massive chains to recover the dragon, while happily overlooking the army of the dead and the dragon.
                              What's wrong with chains? How else does one get a large weight off the bottom of a lake?

                              Though, if there's anything Canadians know about, it's retrieving things from the bottom of a lake.

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                                Originally posted by Vicarious Thrillseeker View Post
                                I think that's my problem with it - it wasn't like all typical TV shows. And now it is. And I loved them being very close to the books.
                                I haven't read the books and don't plan to. As it is, I've quit the show several times only to get pulled back in by the dragons and/or by something that suggests it will be more than just relentlessly grim.

                                I'm more of a space opera person (within reason. I don't dress up on May 4, FFS) than a Dungeons & Dragons/Beardhammer type, but I like fantasy well enough to watch it for a few hours a year or read books under 300 pages, maybe.


                                I agree that it may have just become so unwieldy that he's written himself into a corner and doesn't have enough time to get out. Battlestar Galactica did that and had to resort to a literal deus ex machina.

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                                  Dragons and handy incestual royal lines I suppose will be the instigators of the deus ex fierylizard. Though one or both will die in bringing Peace to Westeros.

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                                    Littlefingers end was one of the better moments I felt.

                                    The transition from confusion, to shock, to panic, to horror and Arya's quick, no nonsense finish, was well played.

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                                      Originally posted by NickSTFU View Post
                                      Littlefingers end was one of the better moments I felt.

                                      The transition from confusion, to shock, to panic, to horror and Arya's quick, no nonsense finish, was well played.
                                      Or would have been, if Aiden Gillen didn't have such a mannered style. He was prone to just the occasional bout of scenery-chewing in The Wire but for me he's been an unwelcome distraction in GoT

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                                        Originally posted by Haddock View Post
                                        Or would have been, if Aiden Gillen didn't have such a mannered style. He was prone to just the occasional bout of scenery-chewing in The Wire but for me he's been an unwelcome distraction in GoT
                                        Maybe the actual dying bit was a bit hammy, but overall I thought it was well done.

                                        Better than some of the scenes between Dany and Snow.

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                                          Speaking of those two, are they half-brother/sister, cousins, or aunt and nephew as a friend suggested to me the other day.

                                          Lost track a bit on that plot development.

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                                            She's his aunt. But only Bran (with his seeing eye powers) and Sam (who's been reading the old scrolls) have worked out who he is so far.
                                            Last edited by Rogin the Armchair fan; 02-09-2017, 08:52.

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                                              A lot of the acting is hammy. When a true quality actor like Dinklage is on screen, he exposes the flaws of the others.

                                              Does anyone have a link that easily explains the family trees, ideally with a diagram?

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                                                Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                                                The "upped the ante" jokes online are good, mind you.
                                                Jon's Aunt Fanny?

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                                                  So, anyone watch last night? I did and enjoyed it even if

                                                  SPOILERS SPOILERS







                                                  not an awful lot actually happened last night. It felt like an episode designed to remind the audience who everyone was. The one big reveal was the one thing we already knew (although Jon Snow didn't). Loved the final scene when Jaime came face to face with Bran for the first time since trying to kill him in the very first episode.

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                                                    So did the Greyjoys take all of their Iron Fleet ships away or just a few? I didn't get that part at all.

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