Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Electronic Cigarettes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #51
    Electronic Cigarettes

    Janik wrote:
    The manufacturers seem to be treading a fine line between whether this is a drug product that will therefore fall within the FDA's remit, or a tobacco one, which won't.
    Actually, tobacco products now fall in the purview of the FDA. They appear to have been sitting on their thumbs.

    Manufacturers are vying for tobacco product, because "drug/device combination" is a de facto ban that has the potential to kill millions. Since the product is already on the market, the FDA must prove that the product causes harm. It's not the manufacturer's job to prove itself innocent; the FDA must find them guilty.

    Janik wrote:
    [...] because the manufacturers cannot produce clear documentation of what is in their products.
    E-cig toxicology reports:

    http://www.theelectroniccigarette.co.uk/images/pictures/documents/e-cartridges_toxicology_report.pdf

    http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/GamucciLabStudy.pdf

    http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf

    http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

    http://www.supersmokerjp.com/images/ToxicologylaboratoryTestResultsEnglishtranslatiion .pdf

    http://truthaboutecigs.com/science/4.pdf

    And for the icing on the cake, the FDA's own toxicology examination:

    http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf

    (Bear in mind that the US FDA allows up to .2% diethylene glycol in all products, including food, that also contain propylene glycol as it is a derivative thereof. And that DEG was found in one cartridge in a sample of only 18, which indicates incidental contamination, and not a regular ingredient)

    Tell me another joke; I must have heard the "We don't know what's in them" one a hundred times.

    Comment


      #52
      Electronic Cigarettes

      Orbdragon, those are all post-production tests (and on all but the NZ and FDA ones on miniscule sample sizes). What they are not is documentation of the manufacturing process. I'm talking about QC systems, so customers know that the product is consistent in it's contents and is contaminant free. The kind of document trail that the pharmaceutical industry is well used to producing.
      Now this is expensive for the manufacturers to do, so they are fighting against it. But from a customer safety point of view, it seems vital.

      Manufacturers are vying for tobacco product, because "drug/device combination" is a de facto ban that has the potential to kill millions.

      Tell me another joke; I must have heard the "We don't know what's in them" one a hundred times.


      There's no need to get agressive, or start making wild statements like 'kill millions'. I've no interest in these things failing, as they seem a good idea.

      Why would e-cigarettes being found to be a drug/device combination be a de facto ban?

      Comment


        #53
        Electronic Cigarettes

        Janik wrote:
        There's no need to get agressive, or start making wild statements like 'kill millions'. I've no interest in these things failing, as they seem a good idea.
        You're right; I'm sorry. It just seems that every time someone trots out the lawsuit they're all, "Nicotine is death! Think of the children!"

        Why would e-cigarettes being found to be a drug/device combination be a de facto ban?
        If they are classed as drug/devices, they will immediately be pulled from the market for testing, and that could take up to a decade unless it gets fast-tracked like Champix did. The FDA would be considered remiss in allowing something potentially dangerous to remain on the market. It must be dangerous if they saw the need to test it, after all.

        [...]those are all post-production tests (and on all but the NZ and FDA ones on miniscule sample sizes). What they are not is documentation of the manufacturing process. I'm talking about QC systems, so customers know that the product is consistent in it's contents and is contaminant free. The kind of document trail that the pharmaceutical industry is well used to producing.

        Now this is expensive for the manufacturers to do, so they are fighting against it. But from a customer safety point of view, it seems vital.
        Not quite true: We (the vaping community, manufacturers, and vendors) are all about that kind of regulation. Nearly all of them use what they make, so it behooves them to do it well. They also know the eggshells they're walking on, so they're keeping it probably cleaner than a pharma lab. If someone comes in with a hidden camera, they want there to be nothing to see, or the FDA could actually have a real reason to throw down, instead of just for the love of money. Since manufacturers are handling nicotine, it's nearly always in a laboratory.

        We want the FDA to get their head out of their you-know-what, class it as tobacco, and start with the QCing; it would take a load off the manufacturers because they have someone 'official' saying it's good, rather than the public having to settle for video walkthroughs of their labs. As a tobacco product, it would automatically forbid minors from purchasing it, which is one of the big outcries about it: "It tastes like candy, you must be selling to children!" So do nicotine gum and lozenges; where are their pitchforks then?

        Here is a pertinent thread on VF regarding sanitary conditions. Caution: Strong language.

        Comment


          #54
          Electronic Cigarettes

          Would you care to disclose your interest in these e-cigarettes, Orbdragon?

          Comment


            #55
            Electronic Cigarettes

            Orbdragon wrote:
            so they're keeping it probably cleaner than a pharma lab.
            Hopefully cleaner than a J&J Pharma lab, for sure.

            Comment


              #56
              Electronic Cigarettes

              dglhand of god wrote:
              Would you care to disclose your interest in these e-cigarettes, Orbdragon?
              Certainly: 4 months ago tomorrow I switched to e-cigarettes from traditional smokes.

              I do not make money in any way, shape, or form from lauding them. Hell, I don't even save money by using them because I used to roll my own before the state of Maine applied a fairly recent 400% tax hike on loose tobacco, and I bought a 25lb case just before it went into affect. I still have 2lbs languishing in a cupboard somewhere.

              I do not get any kickbacks by referring vendors, either.

              I am only a consumer. A happy and loud-about-it consumer.

              Comment


                #57
                Electronic Cigarettes

                Orbdragon wrote:
                dglhand of god wrote:
                Would you care to disclose your interest in these e-cigarettes, Orbdragon?
                I am only a consumer. A happy and loud-about-it consumer.
                A proselytising customer, even.

                I appear to be more of an industry insider than she is. And I'm almost as outside as an insider could be.

                To quote from the blurb at the top of the reviews section of the forum she has come across from;
                "You MUST declare HOW you obtained the product you are reviewing if you received it by any method other than purchasing it for regular price from the supplier. You must ALSO declare if you stand to profit off the product you are reviewing at the current time or have potential to benefit from it at some point in the future. FULL disclosure is required to do reviews here!"

                I think the spirit of all that is about right...

                Comment


                  #58
                  Electronic Cigarettes

                  Only just seen this thread, so apologies for the belated reply.

                  Me and a mate both got into the I-Cig at the same point. He's now moved on to something called a Jonty Stick (honestly) which he fills up with a solution made up of a nicotene based mix, glycerine (which he bought from Boots) and those flavouring things.

                  I've had a few puffs on it. It's about twice as long as the I-Cig, ten times stronger, produces a huge Double Havana amount of vapour, and if filled up properly can enable you to smoke continously for up to 8 hours. My mate who was a chain smoker swears by it.

                  The one to go for apparently is a Jonty Stick Ego Ex:Cel. Costs £40. And enough solution to last you 6 months will cost about £20.

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Electronic Cigarettes

                    This looks good, I think I'll be getting one of those cigs too!Mini-Fogger

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Electronic Cigarettes

                      Well, those who know me on FB know about this but I've been a "vaper" for a couple of months now. I still have the odd rollies when camping (it just feels right)but I'm off fags for good otherwise.

                      I'm using cheap as muck basic e cigs that do the trick ok but I'm about to upgrade a bit. I've been playing with the bottle of "Eliquid" I got today (note to self - buy a lower nicotine dosage next time, that stuff blows your head off...) and it's time I get a better ecig and a few flavours to play with (had fun with the banana flavoured cartridges mind...).

                      Not entirely sure it's harmless but it can only be better for you than actual tobacco. My chronic cough is gone, I don't spit brown gunk anymore in the morning, my taste/smell is much improved and my recuperation times when out hiking have shot through the roof. Overall, a much improved health picture, without a doubt.

                      I would very much recommend them to a smoker that does not quite think he can quit entirely, it just takes an adjustement of taste but once you are used to it, the whole smoking stuff remains the same. Instead of running out of matches, you do run of battery mind...

                      Otherwise, my wife has taken up on smoking zero nicotin B&H flavoured carts on occasion, she missed the taste of fags but after negotiating giving up, would not have liked to hook herself again on nicotine.

                      Right, off to drip some eliquid on my atomiser and vape myself stupid...urgh...

                      Comment


                        #61
                        Electronic Cigarettes

                        As an aside, I'm not sure the claim that all smokers can easily go 10 hours without smoking is valid.

                        When I was a kid, I can remember my aunt and uncle coming to stay, who were both very heavy smokers at the time (probably smoking around 40-60 cigarettes a day). My mum wouldn't let them smoke inside the house, but she conceded that if it was winter, or night-time they could smoke in the conservatory instead of getting frost-bite in the garden. They used to get up once or twice during the night and amble down to the conservatory for a smoke (at home they just kept a pack on the bedside table and smoked in bed when the cravings woke them up). That's gotta be some pretty powerful cravings to make you willing to get up, go downstairs and sit in a cold conservatory in the middle of the night.

                        Comment


                          #62
                          Electronic Cigarettes

                          Balderdasha wrote: As an aside, I'm not sure the claim that all smokers can easily go 10 hours without smoking is valid.

                          When I was a kid, I can remember my aunt and uncle coming to stay, who were both very heavy smokers at the time (probably smoking around 40-60 cigarettes a day). My mum wouldn't let them smoke inside the house, but she conceded that if it was winter, or night-time they could smoke in the conservatory instead of getting frost-bite in the garden. They used to get up once or twice during the night and amble down to the conservatory for a smoke (at home they just kept a pack on the bedside table and smoked in bed when the cravings woke them up). That's gotta be some pretty powerful cravings to make you willing to get up, go downstairs and sit in a cold conservatory in the middle of the night.
                          HaHa! I've been suffering by the same problem...my parents wont letme smoke inside the house no matter the conditions out side. I had to find an alternative and I bought myself an e-cig starter kit . I'm vaping now inside the house and for my amusament, my mother likes the smell of the flavours I use . Unfortunately I haven't quit smoking by using an e-cig, but I smoke less whitch is a good thing for my $account .

                          Comment


                            #63
                            Electronic Cigarettes

                            Blimey, would any other members of the vaping community like to sign up just to post links to vaping websites?

                            Comment


                              #64
                              Electronic Cigarettes

                              Markster's plight is a sorry tale though. It is so happy he can find a smell his mother likes so he can smoke inside his parents house!

                              Comment


                                #65
                                Electronic Cigarettes

                                I was just trying to help...I'm sorry if I bothered you. That was not my intention. All the best!

                                Comment


                                  #66
                                  Electronic Cigarettes

                                  If you make nasty comments about Russia or Vladimir Putin, there's a chance that some lowly paid Russian students will appear to defend him.

                                  COCK PISS PUTIN!

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    Electronic Cigarettes

                                    Israel, China also have professional online shills, and more recently countries like the US and France.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      Electronic Cigarettes

                                      What's your favourite biscuit Markster?

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        Electronic Cigarettes

                                        I don't wan to answer that question...What's your problem? Mind your own business

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          Electronic Cigarettes

                                          My name is sometimes sw2boro and I am a vaper.

                                          Comment


                                            #71
                                            Electronic Cigarettes

                                            I'll never forget my first football match. It was Bolton v Ipswich at Burnden Park. It was a combination of the noise, the excitement and get cheap e-cigarettes online.

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              Electronic Cigarettes

                                              8 days without any nicotine

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                Electronic Cigarettes

                                                Good for you

                                                Comment


                                                  #74
                                                  Electronic Cigarettes

                                                  I've just a young lad (12 or so) using a cig-a-like for (my) first time. Not good, but better than tabs.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    Electronic Cigarettes

                                                    I miss Markster.

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X