Electronic Cigarettes

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

I was hoping for so, you know.

[Mitch]

Electronic Cigarettes

The man does has solutions. How important is teeth retention to you?

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

To bring the thread back on topic, there is always his 'Cigarette Diet'. But crazy surgical options are looking tempting.

[Taylor]

Electronic Cigarettes

Are these things really supposed to hiss and gurgle incredibly noisily when you try to get a drag off them, as though there's a leak somewhere? Or is mine not working properly?

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

Taylor wrote:

Are these things really supposed to hiss and gurgle incredibly noisily when you try to get a drag off them, as though there's a leak somewhere? Or is mine not working properly?

It sounds like has a little too much juice in it, and when you draw it has to pull through a pond of liquid. Unfortunately, M401 is completely unknown territory for me.

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

Here's your thread in VF, by the way: http://vapersforum.com/showthread.php?t=22258

I really should have thought to post it sooner. Sorry about that oversight!

[Sean of the Shed]

Electronic Cigarettes

David Agnew wrote:

Taylor, do you drunk much coffee? If so, try switching to decaff for a bit, or even keep off the coffee altogether for a bit. Numerous studies have shown that people are more inclined to smoke, and smoke more, either while they're drinking coffee, or just after they've drunk coffee.

When I gave up cigs I used lozenges for a few days before going cold turkey, and coffee became my crutch if I got any nicotine type urges. Since giving up drink as well it's become the only buzz I get nowadays.

[Gerontophile]

Electronic Cigarettes

I have unexpectedly cut down recently, due to stress about various things... and the best thing about the stress-reaction and perhaps the fact that I have other things to do, is that I am not smoking. (Stress usually causes one to smoke more. Be wary of this)

However, I am displacing/replacing with food, and (although I am doing some exercise in my spare time) am becoming a bit 'bunter-ish'... which I have to admit, is beginning to look rather good on me.

I was always taught, that you have to steer clear of 'keys', when you have an addiction: dont have a tea/coffee routine, eat a carrot after a meal (to replace the feeling of wanting a fag), and carry a ball or pen with you at all times, so that you have something else to do with your hands.

Admittedly, some of these ideas are extreme, but substitute what works for you.

I currently smoke on average 8 per day, and that is down about 5 per day over the last 10 years.

But, I LIKE smoking. Its not nice, and its not cool, but it is something which I have decided that I will not do without (for now).

[steveeeeeeeee]

Electronic Cigarettes

I'll add to the "cold turkey is the only way" advice. My father died from smoking related illness when he was 46, his legs (both of them, above the knee) were amputated when he was 43. That should scare the sh*t out of any kid growing up, but for some reason I started smoking about a year after he died, when I was 14 and didn't stop for the next 15 years.

I guess I convinced myself that I would never die from the week or so of withdrawal symtoms, but I was definitely going to die a slow, dignity sapping death if I didn't give up. It's been over five years now and I'm far fatter than I ever was but it's no big deal.

I stupidly smoked a cigarette about a month ago, it was absolutely beautiful but a slightly painful experience. I spent the next week fighting cravings and I'm still getting them, so my only other piece of advice is when you stop don't even take deep breaths next to smokers.

It's f*cking hard no matter how mentally prepared you've made yourself, so the best of luck, I hope you can do it.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Electronic Cigarettes

It's f*cking hard no matter how mentally prepared you've made yourself

I'm not sure if it's helpful or otherwise to say this, but I've not smoked since 30 May 2008, and it's been a piece of piss.

My problem was not believing I'd stay stopped. I solved that by going to speak to my GP practice's nurse once a week for six weeks. Sorted. Not had one, not a drag, nothing.

But then, I don't really drink these day and I am sure that helped.

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

Tacuara wrote:"cold turkey is the only way"[/quote]
I'd like to strenuously disagree with that bit.

Cold turkey is no more the only way to quit than the only way to go through life is to live on bread and water. Some folks may believe this, but most know there more interesting paths; not all of them are perfectly healthy, not all of them are without their risks, but all of them are a matter of personal decision and what worked for them.

Most folks who found their way to smoke-free with vaping didn't have to put up much of a fight to get that way, nor are they the least bit tempted by cigarettes anymore, even when they might have to go a few days without a vape. Speaking for myself, I craved the odd cigarette for a week after I put them down, but it was more the thought of, "Gee, I haven't had a smoke for several hours now," then I'd realize that I had a substitute and would puff on that instead.

It seems to me, from observing the vaping community, that the harder you fight to give up smokes the more tempting they remain in the future.

Is vaping right for everybody? Not at all, but anecdotally (The US FDA doesn't seem to recognize studies done by other countries) it's proven the most effective thus far.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Electronic Cigarettes

I'd disagree, I think the key thing to giving up smoking is, "do I really want to give up smoking?" I find that if you're taking anything that's meant to help you quit smoking, then the answer is "no", because you're expecting an easier way out of the habit. The nicotine withdrawal is hard, but its the social/habitual factors which are tougher and I personally believe those factors are impossible to remove gradually - you can and should reintroduce them gradually, but in the first instances of giving up (the first month or two) you really have to remove yourself from a lifestyle which caters for cigarettes.

[Caliban]

Electronic Cigarettes

Two of the techniques I suggest people to people are:

- firstly that you think of yourself as a non-smoker, not as someone who is giving up smoking. If you think of yourself as giving something up or not being allowed to have something, you can get into a pattern of negative suggestion where you focus more on the thing that you're trying to give up until you just have to have it. If you can get into the habit of actively thinking of yourself being a non-smoker you start to forget it. Instead you focus on how a non-smoker lives their life and start living that way, and it doesn't take long before wanting, buying or making time for cigarettes doesn't feature in that routine and so you stop thinking about it.

- breathing techniques can be helpful. Lots of smokers don't want to stop because they feel smoking keeps them relaxed, but technically it can't because everything in a cigarette is a stimulant. Whenever I do this exercise with people they always come back to the fact that the relaxing aspect of having a cigarette is the breathing - the short in-breath and longer out-breath. This IS relaxing because it changes the levels of carbon dioxide & oxygen in your body, which has the effect of lowering your blood pressure and relaxing your muscles. But it has nothing to do with the cigarette - it's about a breathing pattern. The cigarette is just a prop. Maybe this is something you can do with the electronic cigarette (if you can get it to work) if not, a biro works just as well. Just a shorter breath in and a longer breath out is all you need.

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

That all seeems like great advice. Can you recommend anything for my weight problem? I've tried visualising myself as a slim person and trying to behave like a slim person behaves, but it's not worked.

[Nishlord]

Electronic Cigarettes

So pissed off I missed this thread.

I started packing up fags - after 20 years of hardcore chuffing - three and a half weeks ago, for various reasons. If it wasn't for my leccy fag, I'd have been back on 'em three weeks and two days ago.

It's all about having summat to twiddle between your fingers and the kick at the back of the throat, plus the fact that you can hold 'em like the sticks of opium smoked by baddies in kung fu films. The downside is that I've been depressed as fuck rather than irritable and snappy, but fuck it. And the red light at the end is stupid. But I'd definitely recommend 'em.

[Wyatt Earp]

Electronic Cigarettes

Caliban wrote:

This IS relaxing because it changes the levels of carbon dioxide & oxygen in your body...

Callie, I'm slightly surprised by that claim, though I'm not saying it's false. Do you have a reference I could follow for it?

One reason I'm surprised by it is that I'd have thought any such effect would be minor compared to the boost in CO2, and the reduction in blood oxygenation (because of mild CO poisoning), caused by inhaling smoke. So I'd always assumed the breathing thing was psychological: kind of like repeating a mantra, or doing that tense-relax exercise with your skeletal muscles.

[Caliban]

Electronic Cigarettes

Ah, this is a technique I've brought across from general relaxation exercises I do with people, so please don't think I'm saying it's a tried and tested smoking cessation technique. I mean the breathing technique on its own helps relaxation. I use it because I know it works in general (I've had it explained to me by four different doctors, although I've completely forgotten what they've told me, and a paramedic I taught told me they use it to stop hyperventilation and panic attacks) but these all are settings where cigarettes aren't involved, so you might be right in that it's just psychological when it comes to smoking. Certainly people who have stopped smoking use it as a psychological anchor along with the hand-mouth action and say they get the same relaxation benefits.

Lyra - I avoid weight-loss hypnotherapy like the plague because it's such a difficult area. Unlike other issues it's not simply about changing a habit; it involves a whole life change, and I don't think there's any quick answer. Richard Wiseman says that one proven technique is to hang a mirror in the room where you eat. Apparently studies have shown (I know, sorry, I'll try to dig out references if you really want them) that visualising yourself having achieved your goal doesn't work particularly well, and it's better to visualise yourself actively working towards your goal.

[diabloinglés]

Electronic Cigarettes

I think the key thing to giving up smoking is, "do I really want to give up smoking?"

From my experience, I agree with Tacuara on this one.
If you still enjoy smoking then you aren't going to stop.
When you get to the point where you really think to yourself 'urgh! this is horrible', or 'why the fuck am I smoking this crap'or 'this shit is killing me' or whatever to the point where you don't enjoy smoking anymore, then it's easier to just stop.

Cold turkey sucks but it's mainly psychological.
As others have said, the routine smokes (tea break, after a meal, etc) are the hardest ones to drop - but it's just case of finding something else instead.
Reading to fill the time did it for me.

Hardest for me was giving up spliffs. The UK being a place where nearly toker (cig smoker or not) smokes weed in joints with tobacco it took a good while to just forget about the passing the joint around palaver and smoke a pipe. I smoke less weed that way too....

All in all though, it's horses for courses.
Cold turkey worked for me, but doesn't mean it will for everyone.

Good luck to those trying to stop

[Taylor]

Electronic Cigarettes

diabloinglés wrote:

Hardest for me was giving up spliffs. The UK being a place where nearly toker (cig smoker or not) smokes weed in joints with tobacco it took a good while to just forget about the passing the joint around palaver and smoke a pipe. I smoke less weed that way too....

The vapourisation thing started with pot-smoking, didn't it? "Crunchy" US types who wanted to carry on getting stoned without tobacco's negative effect on their snowboarding stamina or whatever, using / inventing those vapouriser things to inhale weed. I might be totally wrong here, but I think that came first, then someone had the bright idea of using the same procedure to ingest nicotine without smoking tobacco.

[Guest]

Electronic Cigarettes

Taylor wrote:

The vapourisation thing started with pot-smoking, didn't it? "Crunchy" US types who wanted to carry on getting stoned without tobacco's negative effect on their snowboarding stamina or whatever, using / inventing those vapouriser things to inhale weed. I might be totally wrong here, but I think that came first, then someone had the bright idea of using the same procedure to ingest nicotine without smoking tobacco.

E-cigs started in China. A fellow by the name of Hon Lik lost his father to lung cancer. He saw people everywhere being killed by their addiction, and saw that they were still powerless to stop. So he invented this clever little device, and it has changed the lives of thousands. Deserves a Nobel Prize, that man!

Definitely get to one of the other forums; you can get PV support 24/7. There's also http://ukvapers.com/ if you want to stay local.

[WOM]

Electronic Cigarettes

David Agnew wrote:

Lucia Lanigan wrote:

I've been a very keen smoker for fifteen years or so, but think I might have accidentally given up. It's been about a month now and I've not really missed it.

I accidentally stopped smoking too, but in very different circumstances.

Me too. After ten years steady, I had a brutal head cold for about a week. I figured 'meh, I've got this far...let's see how long I can hold out'. It's been 15 years now.

[David Agnew]

Electronic Cigarettes

diabloinglés wrote:

I think the key thing to giving up smoking is, "do I really want to give up smoking?"

From my experience, I agree with Tacuara on this one.
If you still enjoy smoking then you aren't going to stop.

You see that wasn't the case with me. The answer to the question of "do I really want to give up smoking?" was "No. I don't, I actually enjoy smoking, and I like the taste.", but my knee was fucked and I couldn't leave the house for three weeks.

That was two and a half years ago, and apart from what I thought would be a stressy week where I bought a pack of fags on the way to an OU residential, and smoked socially for a week, I haven't had a fag since, and the only time I've a craving was at the Supporters Direct Cup a few weeks back, but it passed.

I miss the social side of it though, especially now all smokers get shunted outside with the ban.

Still, at least I haven't become an "ex smoker". That was always my fear about giving up smoking. I hated the thought of being an evangelical anti-smoker.

[Janik]

Electronic Cigarettes

You guys are aware of the FDA's concerted efforts to ban (or at least regulate) e-cigarettes, I take it? Mostly because the manufacturers cannot produce clear documentation of what is in their products.
The manufacturers seem to be treading a fine line between whether this is a drug product that will therefore fall within the FDA's remit, or a tobacco one, which won't.

See this recent report on the where the litigation stands from Bloomberg (n.b. note the location of the reporter for possible colouring of his views).

[Stumpy Pepys]

Electronic Cigarettes

Me too. After ten years steady, I had a brutal head cold for about a week. I figured 'meh, I've got this far...let's see how long I can hold out'. It's been 15 years now.

I think that illustrates the point well; yes, smoking's addictive and there is withdrawal, but the withdrawal isn't that bad. It's not in the same league as, for example, long-term users coming off tricyclic antidepressants or chronic alcohol withdrawal.

It's certainly not bad enough to wake you up in the night -- even a heavy smoker can go without cigarettes quite easily for ten hours (either side of sleeping), but tell someone at midday they can't smoke for ten hours and they can become a nervous wreck. The same goes for a bout of flu or even a heavy cold -- smoking can be the last thing on your mind when you're feeling shit, but smokers then make a conscious decision to resume smoking as soon as it's less unpleasant.

In some ways, the 'nicotine withdrawal is hell' mindset can be very negative, because you're just giving yourself an excuse to fail. If you can understand and rationalise why you're craving cigarettes, it's a hell of a lot easier to stop (as I can testify).

Callie's right about stress. Smoker's aren't a relaxed, blissed out group of people. They've got as much stress as non-smokers, plus the stress of nicotine withdrawal on top of that. Of course, a cigarette will abate the nicotine pangs, but this can set up a behavioural pattern that cigarettes relieve stress per se.

The social aspects of smoking aren't that great. Think of what you can gain; no more burnt clothes and fingers, no more coughing up brown sputum in the morning, no more smelling like an ashtray and no more worrying if you've enough cigarettes for the evening. And, best of all, not having your life revolve around buying cigarettes and finding opportunities to smoke.

And there's no intrinsic pleasure in inhaling tobacco. I remember when I firmly believed there was, but that was really post-hoc rationalisation. It's quite easy for plant breeders to produce a nicotine-free cigarette. Thing is, no smoker would buy them.

[Janik]

Electronic Cigarettes

Orbdragon wrote:

The US FDA doesn't seem to recognize studies done by other countries

One good reason for the FDA not taking that study as sufficient proof* would be that it's beside the point. The primary concern for the FDA is whether these devices are leading people to inhale dangerous substances, which is a question that this study (according to the report you link to) wasn't seeking to address.

* - Before the FDA can consider a trial one of the organisations seeking approval for their product must introduce it as evidence, and we don't know if anyone has in this case.
Once it's been introduced it will be examined and if it's methodology was flawed then it will be rejected, but that is quite reasonable because something with flawed methodology gives unreliable evidence. And even if it's methodology is good and it's results are accepted as valid evidence, its not going to be sufficient on it's own.