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    #26
    England manager continuum

    2002 was another example where England did not win the group so had a much tougher quarter final than needed to be the case. They just needed to beat Nigeria to win the group but were happy with a draw.

    Against Brazil, England were unable to create any pressure against 10 men.

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      #27
      England manager continuum

      Had England won the group they'd have played Senegal, probably tougher opponents than Denmark proved to be.

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        #28
        England manager continuum

        satchmo76 wrote:
        2002 was another example where England did not win the group so had a much tougher quarter final than needed to be the case. They just needed to beat Nigeria to win the group but were happy with a draw.
        England may have been happy with a draw, but they huffed and puffed and were generally outplayed against Nigeria's reserves, who, with nothing of their own to play for, had been out on the piss the night before.

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          #29
          England manager continuum

          Joe Wiz wrote:
          For me, England's best performance of recent times wsa probably the defeat of Argentina in 2002, although they weren't the strongest Argentinian side of recent years, the current England side would have been easily overrun by players like Batistuta and Aimar. The 02 squad was pretty good actually, Owen and Scholes at their peak, Ferdinand and Campbell a strong and resolute partnership at the back and an emerging Ashley Cole on the left. If Beckham had been fully fit and Neville had played rather than Mills, England might have gone a bit further. Had they had a germ of an idea against the Brazilians they'd have played Turkey in the semis and a deeply average German team in the final. Who'd they just destroyed in the qualifiers.
          But 98 was a decent team as well. The whole of the Argentina game is up on youtube, albeit with ESPN commentary. England did play startingly well, Ince in particular having an incredible match.
          Are you serious Joe Wiz?

          Have you forgotton the opening game against Sweden and Nigeria match. I'll grant you, the back four was actually pretty good, but the Midfield was pretty poor. Scholes and Butt seemed to be about to catch fire under the hot sun and Beckham was unfit so was not much use. Sinclair on the left was pretty industrious and the team releid on punting long balls forward to Heskey and Owen. Apart from the opening 30 minutes against Denmark in the second round, they didn't look like a team capable of scoring enough goals to win the world cup.

          David Agnew, that was actually probably Nigeria's 3rd team as alot of the first team were dropped after losing the Afcon semi-final in extra-time to Senegal (as well as the Manager being sacked.

          Oh, and the winning goal against Argentina in 2002 was a blatant dive from Owen, which followed a dive from Beckham a second earlier.

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            #30
            England manager continuum

            The Sweden game was indeed pretty poor, but I'd argue in the Nigeria game England deserved all three points, just. Here's the highlights.


            Thriller, eh? Great run by Owen at 0:42 though.
            Scholes had a decent tournament, and Butt was only in the side because Gerrard was unfit. Your right though, their best game was the Argentina one which was of course played indoors.
            Maybe my memories of 2002 are somewhat rose tinted, twas a particularly time of my life, but I'd fancy that team against pretty much any other England team of the last decade.

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              #31
              England manager continuum

              I think you were looking through rose tinted spectacles to be honest.

              I was on OTF at the time and nobody was impressed.
              I think i may have even watched the game with Tony Curran, Moonlight Shadow and GIK.

              As have been said, Nigeria were only interested in stroking the ball around and still created as many goalscoring opportunities as England.

              Enyeama who made his debut that day seemed to comfortably deal with anything England threw at him despite the commentators trying to claim he was clueless or insinuate that he is much older that his stated 17 years old.

              Listen to the commentry on the Scholes shot where they claimed they keeper was beaten despite the replay clearly showing that it was actually a very good save where he tipped it onto the post.

              Forward to 3:15 on the video and listen to (i think) Brookings assessment on the game which was one of relief to get the draw rather than lamenting to points not gained.

              If Nigeria had something to play for, England would definitly have lost. Also as E10 said, there was no way that England would have beaten Senegal. El Haj Diouf, Salif Diao and Pap Bouba Diop would have finished them off.

              Scholes in Japan played like Scholes in Portugal. Decent for the first half-hour before wilting under the sun.
              Englands best players in 2002 were Campbell, Ferdinand and Ashley Cole who were generally excellent. Hargreaves played well until he got injured and Heskey put in a decent shift as an outlet and Owen looked sharp.
              But the midfield was so poor that England's best midfielder was Trevor Sinclair.

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                #32
                England manager continuum

                Maybe my memories of 2002 are somewhat rose tinted, twas a particularly time of my life, but I'd fancy that team against pretty much any other England team of the last decade.
                That's not because that team were especially good though, just an indication of how poor they've been since. And although the midfield was poor it was better balanced than in other years, perhaps because Gerrard was injured, and an actual (albeit very limited) holding midfielder was played instead.

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                  #33
                  England manager continuum

                  Would it be fair to say that England has been worse in each succeeding WC? 2010 was worse than 2006, which was worse than 2002, which was worse than 1998? And 1998 was only better than 1992-94 because of G Taylor?

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                    #34
                    England manager continuum

                    Straitjacket.

                    Sorry. Jars me every time.

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                      #35
                      England manager continuum

                      I'd say that decline would be pretty accurate. The 2004 team was probably a bit better that 2002, mainly due to the addition of Rooney who was young and hungry and marvellous. Which he ain't no more.... Ferdinand was suspended but Terry and Campbell formed a decent back two, with an even better Cole and Neville either side. Even Lampard scored in that tournament, ya know....

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                        #36
                        England manager continuum

                        And 2002 was obviously better than Euro 2000; although that squad looked good on paper, Keegan was probably England's worst ever coach.

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                          #37
                          England manager continuum

                          Tactical Genius wrote:
                          David Agnew, that was actually probably Nigeria's 3rd team as alot of the first team were dropped after losing the Afcon semi-final in extra-time to Senegal (as well as the Manager being sacked.
                          It wasn't really a 3rd team - only the three senior players (Finidi, Oliseh and Oruma) that had complained about having to travel from Nigeria to Mali by bus (rather than going straight to Mali from their clubs) were dropped for the WC squad. Oruma had been a sub for most of the ANC, with the rest of the team being the first team for both tournaments.

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