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Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

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    Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

    Xavi and Iniesta are as good a midfield pairing as has ever played the game. The team is immense at holding possession. In an all-time league they would win 1-0 most weeks. Discuss.

    #2
    Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

    They're definitely one of the top 5 teams since '94.

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      #3
      Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

      Absolutely not. They scored a total of 8 goals at this WC. They were deserving winners, but that's it.

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        #4
        Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

        It's a shame they couldn't have scored a bit more. They're the lowest-scoring World Cup winners ever. Which considering their reputation and obvious ability, doesn't sit too well somehow.

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          #5
          Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

          Top ten, perhaps.

          Top five definitely not (and there are probably at least five teams that lost finals who were also better).

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            #6
            Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

            I'd say they are the most influential team since the 1970's Dutch teams.

            And you could argue that they are playing a modern-day equivalent of that passing football.

            England need to start training youngsters to play like this.

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              #7
              Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

              Rating teams depends on your criteria of course.

              If you count just WC trophies and Finalist appearances since 1930, Spain are tied 7th with England in the all-time record book.

              More recently however, if you measure their consistency in getting out of the group phase and how far they've gone in the tournament, since 1990 Spain are 4th behind Brazil, Germany & Italy and a trophy win ahead of Holland and Argentina.

              Does it really matter how many goals a team has scored in a tournament? Germany banged in 13 but "only" reached the semis. So it's how far you go that ultimately counts. Spain have been pretty dire to watch at times with all that square passing and defending up the field but they've ground out the results and played the way they needed to play to get those results. They ain't pretty but they got the gold.

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                #8
                Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                Soccer Scrimmage wrote:
                Absolutely not. They scored a total of 8 goals at this WC. They were deserving winners, but that's it.
                I had picked a Netherlands-Spain final in an office pool before the competition started but had expected something different than what we got. So, I would agree with SS here: deserving winners but not a team that I would rank as memorable.

                By comparison, Spain had scored 8 goals in the group phase of Euro 2008; they were a much more memorable side. The tinkering of the starting team that occurred between Euro 2008 and the 2010 WC finals seemed to combine with a shift in Xavi and Iniesta's play (perhaps from a possession game that moved toward goal to a possession game that was just about possession) to make this team less attractive to me when compared to 2008.

                On a final note, Greece scored 7 goals in Euro 2004 and look at how they are discussed--"memorable" might be the term but the term is not loaded with praise. I wouldn't say Spain were as dreadful as Greece, but in terms of results, they were only 1 goal less dreadful.

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                  #9
                  Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                  The other way of looking at it is they only conceded 2 goals, the Chilean one was a random deflection and the Swiss one was a bit of a freaky one.

                  My immediate reaction when comparing them with past winners is that they are a better team than most - I am thinking I might put them on a level with West Germany 90, but post 1974 I think they are better than all the other winners.

                  It's hard to gauge against Argentina 86 because that was quite a modest side with one extraordinary player in it. France 98 might be close but that France team was at its peak a couple of years later really.

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                    #10
                    Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                    8 goals to win the World Cup must be some kind of record for least needed to win. Especially when you think that Germany scored 16 goals in this tourament, and Holland scored 12.

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                      #11
                      Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                      You can't rate Spain ust on the number of goals. All their opponents (except perhaps Chile) defended very deeply against them; even free-scoring Germany. Yet Spain created many chances, which they just didn't take.

                      If there is one reason why this Spain side might not be called "great", then it is the quality of their finishing.

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                        #12
                        Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                        If Torres wasn't playing like he'd left the gas on back home, they'd certainly have scored more and could be regarded as being up there with the greats.

                        He had a lot of chances when he was playing.

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                          #13
                          Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                          Spain have now won the WC and the EC without conceding a single goal in 7 knock-out games - without playing particularly defensively. That makes them one of the greatest teams in history. One of the great teams in WC history? Not quite so sure about that, they never quite found the right balance in their team. Deserving winners as Soccer Scrimmage says.

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                            #14
                            Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                            Spain had 62% of the possession, in a World Cup Final .

                            That's pretty impressive, and almost certainly unprecedented. There have been one-sided finals before in terms of scoreline (Brazil in '58 and '70, France in '98) but I don't remember anyone commenting that they dominated possession like Spain did last night.

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                              #15
                              Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                              That 62% is perhaps a bit flattering: this Dutch team didn't even try to play football and turned in perhaps the most cynical performance ever seen at a World Cup final.

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                                #16
                                Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                Weren't Argentina '90 even more cynical?

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                                  #17
                                  Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                  Definitely. Argentina didn't even attempt to win that match.

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                                    #18
                                    Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                    I doubt many would put that team anywhere near a top five Argentinian WC teams of all time, yet alone a broader one.

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                                      #19
                                      Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                      8 goals is a record (the previous record was 11).

                                      I think dalliance's Germany '90 comparison is a good one, though I would say that France '98 and (probably) Argentina '86 were better, based on Spain's performance in the tournament. And going back from '74, you start getting teams that were clearly superior (Germany '74, Brazil '70, Brazil '58, perhaps Uruguay '50, though comparisons at that distance in time are nearly impossible).

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                                        #20
                                        Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                        I think the West Germany 90 comparisons are apt because both them and Spain had true world class players in every main area of the team. Possibly man for man the Germans were perhaps better but the net team effect was similar.

                                        France obviously had a fantastic defence and midfield but were pretty ordinary in attack. I don't think back to that team with all that much awe, as I said the team 2 years later was definitely a match for current Spain but that takes you out of the realm of being World Cup specific.

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                                          #21
                                          Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                          Similarly Argentina 86 is a complicated one because man for man they look modest outside Maradona, Valdano and Burruchaga. But they did win what I feel was the World Cup with the most number of nations with truly excellent sides I can remember, I calculated 8 on another thread.

                                          There were not 7 other great sides for Spain to come out on top of in this tournament.

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                                            #22
                                            Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                            It's interesting that many of the superior European champions were in fact better at a prior or subsequent Euros.

                                            I would say this is clearly true of Germany '72, France '00 and Spain '08.

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                                              #23
                                              Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                              Was Spain 08 better than Spain 10 ?

                                              They were more of an attacking side I agree with a single defensive midfielder rather than the current pair. I think entering this tournament was quite different for them than two years ago, then they were not proven at all and most thought they would do what Spain typically do when they reach a certain level. Teams came out and played football against them and the Spanish happily outclassed them as no-one comes close when it comes to this type of game.

                                              Two years later and with pretty much every game bar one won comfortably everyone knew them and feared them, so invariably they defended incredibly deeply and with plenty of numbers back. Other nations felt that attritional tactics was the only way to play against them but Spain adapted and overcome this quite different challenge from 08.

                                              So different as a team yes, a big part being how other teams approached games against them now rather than then, but better ? I don't know so much about that.

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                                                #24
                                                Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                                I think that they played better in 08, largely due to Torres being fitter and Marcos Senna being significantly better than Busquets. On the other hand, Pique is an improvement over Marcheda, and Villa had a better tournament.

                                                The context you note is important, but I still feel that the 08 side was more impressive during the tournament in question.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Spain 2010: one of all-time Top 5 WC Teams?

                                                  I find some of the comments here astonishing. This Spanish side is one of the most dominant of all time. Most of the other sides mentioned cannot even be compared. Spain won Euro 2008, pissing over everyone, possession wise. They were always on the front foot and no one could get at them. Three knockout games, three clean sheets all while playing on the attack.

                                                  Then they come to the World Cup. One of their main strikers is half fit and plays the first five games. Effectively Spain played with ten and half men for the first five games. Every team with the exception of Chile, sat in deep against them, even the most expansive German sides in years. Why do they do that? Because Spain are so good that not sitting in is suicide.

                                                  Using the number of goals scored is pointless. Germany scored a helluva lot more goals but in the match between the two Spain gave Germany a football lesson. In every knockout match they faced teams sitting in and denying them no room to operate in but they still managed to find a way through at least once in each game. They didnt lose a goal in knockout football and that included a big save from a penalty.

                                                  They have dominated every match and i have never seen a more dominant outfit. On top of that, they are the first European team to win outside of Europe and they had to deal with the pressure of being Spanish and thus being labelled World Cup bottlers.

                                                  Someone said that some teams who didnt win the World Cup were better than Spain. Dont make me laugh. I ask you to point me to a better World Cup loser than the victorious Spanish.

                                                  They are the best i have ever seen at international level. Xavi and Iniesta are the best midfield pairing i have ever seen work in tandem. No one has dominated so many matches over a longer period for both club and country the way they have.

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