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    #26
    England's squad numbers

    Rogins Drift wrote:
    Wasn't it Argentina in 1982 who started with doing away with "traditional" shirt numbers, when they had them assigned alphabetically so Ossie Ardiles improbably had number 1 on his back?
    Holland did that first, in 1974. Except for Cruyff, who got his favourite number 14, the others were alphabetical - hence the glorious sight of Jongbloed the goalie wearing number 8.

    Not everyone noticed this though, as happy accident meant a lot of the players ended up with numbers close to what you'd expect - midfielders wearing 7, forwards wearing 9 etc. I don't think Ruud Geels the sub striker got a game (might be wrong), so we never got to see his lovely number 1 shirt.

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      #27
      England's squad numbers

      Etienne wrote:
      Tony Dorigo in 1990 is one. Le Saux from Jersey, if you count that .
      Well, Jersey's not in England, is it?

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        #28
        England's squad numbers

        England's squad numbers in '82 were alphabetical, aside from the goalkeepers, who were given 1, 13 and 22 and injured supersub Kevin Keegan, who presumably insisted on keeping number 7.

        The most incongrous-looking consequence was Trevor Brooking at number 3.

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          #29
          England's squad numbers

          So (unrelated to the post above) '82 was the last all English born squad then?

          The Brooking at 3 thing always massiveley disturbed me. Kallon's tribute to it at Inter was a ghastly reminder.

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            #30
            England's squad numbers

            Heet Oranje wrote:
            England's squad numbers in '82 were alphabetical, aside from the goalkeepers, who were given 1, 13 and 22 and injured supersub Kevin Keegan,
            Blimey! Never noticed that (borderline Rain Man pointless squad number obsessive that I am). Of all the teams you wouldn't expect...

            But again, with the exception of Brooking, you can't really tell because most of them ended up with numbers close to what they'd have worn anyway (or numbers >12, obviously). OK, Hoddle's in 9, but that's not too weird (Liverpool used to stick midfielders in 9, and Beardsley later wore it for England despite not playing as a "proper" centre forward). Viv Anderson at number 2, Trevor Francis at number 8, Terry McDermott wearing 10, and so on.

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              #31
              England's squad numbers

              Those England squad number wall tributes in full.

              I am full of envy about this, it's so cool.

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                #32
                England's squad numbers

                Harrie van Timmerman wrote:
                Those England squad number wall tributes in full.

                I am full of envy about this, it's so cool.
                Nice advert. Why is Gerrard's in a kids playpen?

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                  #33
                  England's squad numbers

                  I am immensely proud of No. 23. Though I haven't lived there for years and can't work out where the hell it's painted.

                  It struck me that if you took out Merseyside and the London/home counties players, there wouldn't be much of an England squad left. Only one Yorkshireman, one Geordie, two from the midlands; and where are the Mancunians? (You can't really count Macc.)

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                    #34
                    England's squad numbers

                    robw wrote:
                    Nice advert. Why is Gerrard's in a kids playpen?
                    It probably got sent there for hitting another number then blaming his mates.

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                      #35
                      England's squad numbers

                      Lampard's and Gerrard's are the more peculiar ones. I was hoping the former's might be done on the quad at Westminster School.

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                        #36
                        England's squad numbers

                        Although he went to Brentwood School.

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                          #37
                          England's squad numbers

                          Did he? Chalk that one up as "Fallacies I have long believed" then.

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                            #38
                            England's squad numbers

                            He did. I only know because [whispers] I was there too [/whispers].

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                              #39
                              England's squad numbers

                              Old School centre-forward = Kevin Davies

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                                #40
                                England's squad numbers

                                They should have painted Heskey's number on the side of a barn.

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                                  #41
                                  England's squad numbers

                                  I love these international stats.

                                  Chilavert. 74 caps / 8 goals
                                  Higuita. 68 caps / 8 goals
                                  Heskey. 57 caps / 7 goals

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                                    #42
                                    England's squad numbers

                                    dalliance wrote:
                                    Wasn't it Argentina in 1982 who started with doing away with "traditional" shirt numbers, when they had them assigned alphabetically so Ossie Ardiles improbably had number 1 on his back?
                                    It was.
                                    It wasn't.

                                    (Just for Taylor)

                                    In alphabetic terms, France and Switzerland did it positionally in 1954 (the first time there were numbers) and France did it again in 1958 (1-3 keepers, 4-7 backs, 8-14 halves and 15-22 forwards). Spain (keepers 1-3, outfield 4-22) did it in 1962, and Chile and Italy did it in 1966, and the Dutch beat them to it in 1974 (and almost in 1978), with one exception - Cruyff had his preferred number (14), instead of the number he would have had alphabetically (1). Argentina had also been alphabetical in 1978 as well (midfielder Norberto Alonso was 1, Ardiles was 2, Villa was 22). Italy went back to the old alphabetic by positions for 1978 , and kept it for 20 years, as England did it for 1982.

                                    Other than alphabetically, in 1958 Scotland had 1 & 2 as keepers, Brazil named their keepers as 1 & 3, Yugoslavia named keepers as 1, 2 and 20. In 1962, Austria and the Soviet Union named their keepers as 1, 2 and 3, and outfield players 4-22 (Colombia did similar, but took two keepers). Something Argentina and Portugal replicated in 1966 (seemingly ordered by number of caps - something Scotland replicated at Euro 1992). Italy did something similar (their keepers were 1, 2 and 18), as did the Soviet Union in 1970 (Yashin wore 13).

                                    Harrie van Timmerman wrote:
                                    So (unrelated to the post above) '82 was the last all English born squad then?

                                    The Brooking at 3 thing always massiveley disturbed me. Kallon's tribute to it at Inter was a ghastly reminder.
                                    Kallon's was more down to a "superstition" of wanting one number, rather than two on his back, and three was the only one available.

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                                      #43
                                      England's squad numbers

                                      Yes, Ursus told us that at the time (actually, wasn't it religious reasons?).

                                      You didn't think I really thought Kallon would be making a tribute to Trevor Brooking (and an to an underwhelming World Cup performance from him at that), did you?!

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                                        #44
                                        England's squad numbers

                                        Bit off the point but doesn anyone know the USA squad numbers? They seem to live in fear of the number 13 in that part of the world.

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                                          #45
                                          England's squad numbers

                                          Harrie van Timmerman wrote:
                                          Yes, Ursus told us that at the time (actually, wasn't it religious reasons?).

                                          You didn't think I really thought Kallon would be making a tribute to Trevor Brooking (and an to an underwhelming World Cup performance from him at that), did you?!
                                          I didn't know ursos has said the reason.

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                                            #46
                                            England's squad numbers

                                            Wizard in Black wrote:
                                            Bit off the point but doesn anyone know the USA squad numbers? They seem to live in fear of the number 13 in that part of the world.
                                            Yeah, Dan Marino and Wilt Chamberlain are two of the most famous '13' wearing athletes. The number is not too popular though.

                                            Ricardo Clark doesn't seem to mind it. Think back to 74 Cup and Muller and Neeskens.

                                            I hated the number as the one time I wore it I got cracked in the thigh. We had a pile of jerseys and it was first come, first serve - I preferred number 4, but all that was left was 13 - ridiculously superstitious due to unnerving tales by my grandmother. Avoided it ever since.

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                                              #47
                                              England's squad numbers

                                              Harrie van Timmerman wrote:
                                              Lampard's and Gerrard's are the more peculiar ones. I was hoping the former's might be done on the quad at Westminster School.
                                              I will keep my eye out for #7 and #16. I know where 16 is, but not 7.

                                              Interesting how the Liverpool and Leeds based players get specific suburbs, but Heskey just gets 'Leicester'. This may be right, I don't know, but Leicester's a pretty big place.

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                                                #48
                                                England's squad numbers

                                                ChristiaanJabulani wrote:
                                                Only one Yorkshireman
                                                Two.

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                                                  #49
                                                  England's squad numbers

                                                  (paraphrase)
                                                  'Did jesus play for Yorkshire, daddy?'
                                                  'And, you know, in a funny way he did.'

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                                                    #50
                                                    England's squad numbers

                                                    dalliance wrote:
                                                    Ardiles had the number 2 shirt in 1978 and the number 1 shirt in 1982. This carried on to 1990 where they had an unusual hybrid due to new FIFA rules and pandering to certain egos. So Pumpido started against Cameroon in the number 1 jersey, Burruchaga had 7 and Maradona had 10. The rest were a bit of a bix, part alphabetic, part not.
                                                    Maradona had the 10 in 1982 and 86 as well, going against the otherwise entirely alphabetical ordering of the numbers. No-one minded. There are shirt numbers and shirt numbers, after all, as you rightly say. By happy coincidence, of course, the same system led to Mario Kempes getting the 10 in 1978 anyway. Number 11 was the phenomenally named Daniel Pedro Killer.

                                                    the number 5 is also a very significant and honorable shirt for an Argentine to wear. The role is usually the defensive midfielder, a Mascherano type of player who screens the defence and sometimes is a more creative playmaker too.

                                                    Almeyda, Redondo, Cambiasso are past holders of this shirt.
                                                    And, this year, Mario fucking Bolatti, because for some reason Mascherano always opts for the number 14 when he's playing for Argentina. I have no idea why - he's the archetypal cinco and I really wish he'd choose it for Argentina. But then this year there are a few funny numbers in the Argentine squad - or rather, they've stuck to giving players the 'correct' numbers for their positions even though that player is highly unlikely to make the starting lineup (so Clemente Rodríguez, the only out-and-out left back, gets the 3, and Gabriel Heinze takes the 6 - normally the left-half's number - even though he'll most likely be the first choice left back).

                                                    I love those Umbro ads for the England numbers.

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