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Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

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    Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

    The whole idea that there even exists a principled distinction between art and artifice really came in with Romanticism, I think. Which doesn't make it false, but does mean we shouldn't necessarily take it as read. The notion that the artist, by exercising skill, engenders emotion in the audience predates the notion that he/she transmits authentically felt emotion to the audience, and it's not obvious that the former is false.

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      Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

      Why on Earth... wrote:
      The notion that the artist, by exercising skill, engenders emotion in the audience predates the notion that he/she transmits authentically felt emotion to the audience, and it's not obvious that the former is false.
      I like that distinction, and it certainly sounds like a Romnatic notion, this idea that the emotional state of the artist themselves becomes, as with Wordsworth, a valid subject for art. I suppose it's out of this that the idea of 'really meaning it, man' arises.

      I was going to say something tangential too, but I've forgotten what it was.

      Oh yes - people look for realities and 'honesty' in songs, though don't they? I was lately reading Richard Thompson on the various interpretations of Beeswing and who he 'really' wrote it about - Sandy Denny, perhaps, or Anne Briggs. He made it all up. I don't think it alters the impact of the song because it's artifice in that sense.

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        Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

        Why on Earth... wrote:
        The notion that the artist, by exercising skill, engenders emotion in the audience predates the notion that he/she transmits authentically felt emotion to the audience, and it's not obvious that the former is false.
        Yeah, to quote a famous musicologist:

        Since most of this [pre-Romantic] music had to be composed quickly, for immediate use, composers relied on familiar and universally accepted formulas for its organization and handling of detail. Wherever we sample this music, we find it runs true to type.

        This consistency bespeaks a language understood throughout Europe and parts of the New World. Moreover, to speak of 18th-century music as a language is not simply to use a figure of speech. Structural parallels between music and oratory follow a clear path through music theory of the 17th and 18th centuries. Just as there were rules for organizing an oratorical discourse, so were there explicit prescriptions for building a musical progression. Both language and music had their vocabulary, syntax, and arrangement of formal structures, subsumed under the title Rhetoric. The skilled composer, the well-trained performer, the perceptive listener had command of musical rhetoric, much as a literate person today deals with the grammar of language. The expertise of the composer was shown in his ability to manipulate his ideas flexibly and felicitously within the rhetorical system.
        He goes on to say

        Expression was an ever-present concern in 18th century musical thought and practice. In its most general sense, expression referred to ways in which the listener's feelings could be stirred. The term covered a wide range of concepts and procedures, from frank pictorialism to subtle evocation of mood. Critical and theoretical writings of the 18th century contain much material on musical expression. Some comments are subjective, as those of Rousseau; others, as Kirnberger's, aim for objective pinpointing of expressive content. This latter approach bespeaks the rationalism of the time; it reflects the encyclopedic view that endeavored to bring all observable phenomena into a hierarchical order, thus making them understandable and manageable. Apart from individual interpretations, 18th-century preoccupation with expression indicates the strong presence projected by this aspect of musical art. Expression, however defined or regarded, was an essential quality; without it no piece was fit to be heard.
        (Leonard Ratner)

        So it comes down to whence this 'expression' derives, whether from utilizing an accepted language consisting of metaphor and allegory and so on, or moreso from the composer's special individuality. The thing is, while there came a change of emphasis in the Romantic period, it's not as though the old rhetorical topics disappeared entirely, they still had to be relied upon, and therefore expanded upon, to some extent.

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          Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

          Sorry, imp, I should have taken into account that it was a character's thoughts being quoted but the intention behind the quoting is bullshit.

          I would like the time and date of that post to be taken into consideration in my post. I posted a fair few stroppy posts on various fora around that time

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            Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

            Why on Earth... wrote:
            The whole idea that there even exists a principled distinction between art and artifice really came in with Romanticism, I think. Which doesn't make it false, but does mean we shouldn't necessarily take it as read. The notion that the artist, by exercising skill, engenders emotion in the audience predates the notion that he/she transmits authentically felt emotion to the audience, and it's not obvious that the former is false.
            Brilliantly put.

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              Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

              For those who care about War Canoe and Prince Charming, here's Danny Baker talking to Rolf about it.

              And to reiterate, they paid him five grand and it wasn't Rolf's original tune anyway, it's a trad. tune arranged by him.



              and bloody hell, look at the views on this thread!

              No real news about Adam .. he is OK and being treated well (some people have posted rather hysterical claims to the contrary around the net, and started "free Adam" facebook pages and the like). He's in the right place for now, hopefully they can help stabilise him.

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                Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

                No change from above ... just something I was reminded of today, that Kevin Rowland co-wrote one of the songs on Manners & Physique, with Adam. As KR was mentioned upthread.

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                  Simon Price Interviews Adam Ant

                  This wave of nostalgia for Adam & The Ants gave me cause to revisit their two big albums for the first time in 30 years.

                  It's odd, I remember KOTWF being number one forever and in the top 40 for years but I didn't remember it as being anything much to write home about even when I was 10 years old. I could not even remember the Prince Charming album at all.

                  So anyway listen I did and to be honest I was a little surprised at just how poor both were - especially with the praise the non-singles have had on this lengthy thread. I mean really poor to the point of embarrassment I was listening to this stuff again.

                  Still, they'll remain a fantastic singles band to me at least.

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