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    #51
    Here is the opening line of the blurb from the official Ticket portal:-
    One of BBC Sport's unmissable events of 2018, the Vitality Hockey Women's World Cup comes to London from 21 July - 5 August.

    Er, yeah...

    On the other hand, it would be a bit arrogant of the BBC to swan in and just show this when BT Sport have made a proper commitment to the sport, showing numerous events live across the year. That sort of general publicity does merit getting first dibs on the big show when it happens.

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      #52
      USA vs England at 8pm today. Rather different circumstances from their last competitive meeting (sort of) which was at the Olympics when both teams were flying and relaxed - it came in the last pool game, with both USA and GB boasting a played 4, won 4 records and assured of very comfortable qualification for the Quarter-Finals. GB won 2-1 that time, and went on to gold of course whilst the US's highly promising tournament (they opened with shock wins over Argentina and Australia) rather petered out as that defeat was followed a QF loss to Germany and not even getting the chance to play for a medal. This time around England have an opening draw and the US an opening loss and it's possible that either could end the group fourth and eliminated very early.

      The England game will be preceded at 6pm by Germany-Argentina, both of whom looked very strong during their opening wins. In a typical, Football style 4-team pool, this match would matter but not that much as whoever losses would back themselves to win their final match and come second. However with the structure of the Hockey World Cup, it really matters - the group winners advance directly to the QFs whilst the team finishing second in a group has to play an extra game, the crossover match against a side finishing third in one of the other pools. So there is something of real significance to play for.

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        #53
        8pm today? Er, no, today's games were New Zealand vs Japan (Japan won!) and Australia vs Belgium (0-0 draw, also a surprise result). 8pm tomorrow more like for the next England game.

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          #54
          Looks like I've got two tickets for next Thursday's quarter-finals 3 & 4 (which will feature England assuming they progress) to take my 16 year old elder daughter to. Any idea who are likely to be the other teams?

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            #55
            Netherlands are fancied to win the cup, so they are most likely to win group A and be in the first of those two matches. Maybe India and Italy as the opponents? Guessing a bit there to be honest.

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              #56
              Netherlands are both favourites to win the whole thing, and in a good position to top their pool after the nominally next strongest team, China, lost their opening game to theoretically the weakest side in the competition, Italy. It would be a good assumption that they will be playing in the first game. Likely opposition is harder to gauge seeing as it will come from the 2nd B vs 3rd A crossover match. By rankings this would be USA vs Korea, but on results so far India vs China is more in line with what is happening. If that was the case I would tip India to win, making that QF Netherlands vs India

              If England do OK tonight against the US they will be in a good position to be the pool A winners, and therefore in the second QF as scheduled on Thursday evening. 2nd A vs 3rd B is again harder looking to predict. By World Rankings this should be China vs India, but Korea vs Ireland is the best guess given the openers. If it was those it would have to be Korea one would expect to see taking on England.
              Last edited by Janik; 25-07-2018, 14:18.

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                #57
                So England aren't definitely in that evening's quarter-finals if they get to that stage - as the event site states?

                Although, perhaps crucially, there is no indication what ** means next to that claim.
                Last edited by Ray de Galles; 25-07-2018, 14:13.

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                  #58
                  No, if England make the QFs it will definitely be on that evening. The games are 1st A vs 2nd B/3rd A and 1st B vs 2nd A/3rd B. England will be either 1st, 2nd or 3rd in B, so must be heading towards that evening's matches. It would take a shock early elimination for them not to be playing in front of you.

                  Edit - Ah, I see the confusion, I said second QF. I meant second on that evening! Sorry.

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                    #59
                    No worries, thanks for clarifying.

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                      #60
                      Well, England are definitely not in a good position to win Pool B anymore after another turgid performance, high on perspiration but low on inspiration, ended with a second 1-1 draw. Which was about all the game deserved. It was hard to see England scoring baring a lucky break or a bit of individual skill from Danson. In the end it took both! Even then it should have been enough, the US dominated the first ten minutes but after that were then a complete no presence in the game up until England scored, but as soon as the hosts did they sat back, looked nervous and swiftly conceded an equaliser. However the single most glaring aspect is the lack of a drag-flicker for penalty corners, which is leaving the side reliant on slaps and deflections, which are just not working.

                      It all leaves England relying on other results. Anything but a draw tomorrow between Ireland and India and topping the pool is out of their hands. Indeed if Ireland win the game, they will be through to the QFs as pool winners already, which would be a real turn up for the books. I tipped India to win though, which would take them top of the pool with 4 points and England relying on the USA getting something off the Indians in the final pool match. Along with England beating Ireland as well, which is far from a given based on performances so far.
                      Last edited by Janik; 26-07-2018, 00:37.

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                        #61
                        Hey, Ireland are beating India 1-0 at half-time! They are 30 mins away from what I assume is a first ever World Cup QF. And doing it with a game to spare.

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                          #62
                          Wow! COYGIG, as I believe the hashtag goes.

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                            #63
                            And there it is!

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                              #64
                              That is a real turn up for the books. The depth in Hockey in the past has generally not been there - it was barely conceivable that a 4th seed would win a pool. And the Irish have done it in two games. Be proud of your team, Irish posters on here. They have surpassed themselves.

                              England will now have to play in a cross-over game... assuming they don't just plain get knocked out! That isn't likely, as a draw in their final game will be enough even if it is against the intimidating Mean Green Machine. England's situation has become win = guaranteed 2nd, draw = potentially 2nd but at worst 3rd, defeat = potentially 3rd but could be 4th on goal difference.

                              Oh, and the Irish win was not without it's pain. No.10 tries to join the goal celebration and gets whacked in the face by a teammates stick!

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                                #65
                                Oh and Ray and daughter will get to see Ireland for sure. Hopefully England will be joining them... possibly on the same pitch at the same time.

                                I took a punt at half-time on Ireland hanging on and bought tickets for the cross-over games on Tuesday. So I will be crossing my fingers extra hard come Sunday, as watching England play would be fun. I don't think I was the only one who did this, as they are now all gone.
                                Last edited by Janik; 26-07-2018, 18:24.

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                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                  Hey, Ireland are beating India 1-0 at half-time! They are 30 mins away from what I assume is a first ever World Cup QF.
                                  I've now looked it up. Ireland's previous best finish at a World Cup was 11th in 1994, and there was only 12 teams in the tournament that year. They had only qualified 3 times previously (the last time being 2002), and had finished bottom of their opening pool in each of them. With classification games their historic record was 3-4-15. Their best World League finish is 13th (last year) and their best Euros result was 5th ('05 and '09). No wonder their coach looked gobsmacked and on the verge of tears as the final whistle blew.

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                                    #67
                                    I've mentioned a couple of times that Ireland were the second lowest ranked side in the tournament. The only team below them in the FIH standings were Italy. However just like the Irish, the Italians managed an excellent win in their opening match (3-0 against China, ranked 8th). Tonight was their second game against South Korea (no.9). This was extremely tight, and reached the start of the last minute still goalless. Then Italy put together a really good sweeping attack, two or three players showing excellent decision making and timing of their passes. It ended with a player driving into the circle and rounding the Korean 'keeper to seemingly work herself an open goal. However in doing so she ended up with the ball behind her and stretching and in taking the shot early enough to stop a scrambling defender interfering she just couldn't get round the ball, sending it across the face of goal. No matter, a teammate was waiting on the back post. Except the miss-hit shot was off the ground at an awkward height, and this player only got an edge on the ball and it went... wide. Such a chance to win the game with 30 seconds left.
                                    But then Korean tried to take the restart and work the space to send the ball upfield. This backfired spectacularly as the ball was turned over in their circle, the last defender drawn and the ball laid across to an unmarked Italian, who swept it under the diving Korean 'keeper and in. The goal was scored with 5 seconds left on the match clock.

                                    So Italy have two wins out of two, just like Ireland, and a guarantee of progress beyond the pool stage. A key difference between the two is the performance of the top seed in their pool, which neither have met yet. Ireland are the pool winners with six points as England have drawn both their games 1-1. Italy? Well the top seeds in their pool, Netherlands, have also conceded once in both their games. But unlike England the Dutch have scored 7 times in both matches as well (and that is 7 in each, not 7 cumulatively). So Italy sit second in the pool on goal difference, and will need to beat the Dutch on Sunday to make the QFs directly. This is very unlikely (see two 7-1 wins!), and means Italy are likely to finish second in Pool A and be heading for the crossover games.

                                    Which brings us on to England [I'm ignoring the collective groans about everything always having an England angle]. They are now in a situation very similar to where the Footballers were that it may well be in their best interests not to win their next match. If the Dutch beat Italy (which will be known rather than speculative by the time England's pool finishes), then the side that finishes 2nd in Pool A will be looking at a crossover match against China or Korea followed by a QF against Netherlands. Whereas the side that finishes 3rd in Pool A would play Italy then Ireland...

                                    Now you are going to say this is arrogance, and that Italy and Ireland have demonstrated they are better than China or Korea and arguably England as well. That only four sides have won their first two games, those are Netherlands, Germany, Ireland and Italy and their results mean they should be treated with equal respect. Well yes, but... It's impossible to ignore the lack of experience that Ireland and Italy have in knock-out matches. There is a familiar theme in tournaments like this of underdogs who impress in pool stages going out in subdued fashion in the knock-outs. It is surely a better idea to have a route of Italy-Ireland-Germany/Australia than the other option.

                                    It helps England's cause further that they will know exactly what they need to do when the play Ireland as the other final Pool B game (India vs USA) will have finished half-an-hour before. And engineering 3rd place would only be a razor fine balancing act if India and the States draw. Then England would need to contrive a one goal defeat but not a two goal one to slip behind the Indians but not go out. If either India or the US win the preceding match it gets easier - England would finish 3rd with a draw or defeat against Ireland, and 2nd with a win. That said, I really don't expect England to try and play for 3rd. They are sorely lacking momentum after two draws, and that will be regarded as more important. The argument will likely be heard that they are targeting winning the World Cup, and doing that probably means beating the Dutch at some point, so it may as well be a QF as the Final.

                                    As for Ireland, they will also want to keep their momentum going and also Ireland side generally don't lack for motivation when playing England. Also Hockey, unlike Football, doesn't have players (baring reserve 'keepers) at the tournament that are unused. The squads have 18 players, and all 18 kit up for each match. And then all but the back-up 'keeper usually get on the pitch in each game, as Hockey has rolling subs. The 16th and final Irish outfield player to be introduced to the action was Elena Tice, and she came on in the last minute of the opening quarter of the first game against the USA. Against India, on a scorching day, it took only 5 minutes for all 16 outfielders to have seen action. I doubt any of them feel undercooked. The Ireland coach might opt to give the one player who hasn't yet made the pitch, his back-up 'keeper Grace O'Flanagan, some pitch time, be it a whole game, a half or even a quarter. But even there I think he won't want to disrupt a very good defensive unit that is developing.

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                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                      Italy sit second in the pool on goal difference, and will need to beat the Dutch on Sunday to make the QFs directly. This is very unlikely (see two 7-1 wins!), and means Italy are likely to finish second in Pool A and be heading for the crossover games.
                                      Not going to happen - Netherlands are 10-1 ahead, and there are still 10 minutes to play! This matches the previous highest score at a Women's World Cup, and is only the second time ever a game has seen double-figures scored.

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                                        #69
                                        Finished 12-1

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                                          #70
                                          USA vs India finishes 1-1, which means all three games not involving Ireland in Pool B have ended with that scoreline. It leads to a fascinating conundrum for England, as the underperformance of the top seeds mean there is definitely a right and wrong side to the draw. The top half will feature Netherlands, B2, South Korea, Australia, Argentina and New Zealand. That is, in order, the World no.1, 9, 5, 3 and 4. Add England (2) as well and you have the entire top 5 on one side! The bottom half is Ireland (16), Italy (17), B3, Germany (6), Belgium (13) and Spain (11).

                                          The difficult for England is that contriving a result that sees them finish 3rd is next-to-impossible. Win or draw, and they end up with 5 or 3 points, ahead of India and the US. Lose 1-0 and their record is the same as India's (0-2-1 2-3) and their h2h was a draw. Good knows what the next tie-breaker is! Lose 2-1, 3-2 etc. and England finish 2nd on goals scored. What they need is a two-goal defeat but a very specific type of two-goal defeat, i.e. a high scoring one. Beyond being extremely risky (lose by three and England are definitely out) it's also made complex by the Ireland-USA match finishing 3-1. So a 2-0 defeat and England are out on goals scored, 3-1 and they are level on everything with the USA. 2-4 works, but fixing it to be that...

                                          They will probably try and win the game, and to heck with the skewed draw. Anyway, it has just started...

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                                            #71
                                            Very tense scoreless draw so far against the old enemy - how long has it been since they switched from grass?

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                                              #72
                                              Oh, decades at International level. It was all astro by the 80s. Even amateur stuff is all astro these days, in England at least.

                                              Another curates egg performance from England. 30+ shots, 15 penalty corners and the only time they could beat McFerran (who was absolutely excellent again) was via deflection off a defenders stick.

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                                                #73
                                                First Olympics to be played on a synthetic surface was Montreal in 1976

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                                                  #74
                                                  Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                                  Oh, decades at International level. It was all astro by the 80s. Even amateur stuff is all astro these days, in England at least.

                                                  Another curates egg performance from England. 30+ shots, 15 penalty corners and the only time they could beat McFerran (who was absolutely excellent again) was via deflection off a defenders stick.
                                                  Last time I watched the sport was the old Sports Stadium days on RTE back in the Nineties, which would have been the old Leinster League, which perhaps explains the grass. Even then, the bully-off must have been a thing of the past.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                                    First Olympics to be played on a synthetic surface was Montreal in 1976
                                                    Montreal was also, probably not coincidentally, the first time that the Indian Men's team had entered the event and not come away with a medal. Without the American led-boycott in 1980 the cut-off would likely be entirely clean as India won their only non-grass medal (a gold one) in '80, but nine of the original 12 teams pulled out of the event*. Astroturf changed the nature of the sport significantly.
                                                    * - 1980 was also the year of the first Olympic Women's tournament. Yes, I know, Hockey is seen as a Women's sport, but it still manage to be Men-only in the Olympics for six decades or more! Zimbabwe won that inaugural event, but only after all but the Soviet Union of the original entrants had withdrawn, i.e. the winners were fill-ins. It remains the only Olympic medal Zimbabwe has won by someone other than Kirsty Coventry.

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