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The luckiest man in rock and roll?

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    #26
    The Beatles wouldn't have been the same if they'd been John, Paul, George and Peter. Everyone would have thought they were a gospel choir.

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      #27
      Originally posted by Benjm View Post
      For cases like Andrew Ridgeley and Bez, where 'lucky' is used to suggest that they weren't really carrying their weight, it is reasonable to ask whether the band could have enjoyed the same success without them. George Michael always seemed happy to accept that Wham! wouldn't have been the same proposition without his more carefree partner. Without Bez as a visual anchor and mascot, the Mondays would have been vastly more likely to slip through the cracks into obscurity. Just ask the Stockholm Monsters. .
      I think I recall from the VH1 Behind the Music on Wham! that although GM was a lot more talented than Ridgely (perhaps a lot, lot, lot, more talented), that it was originally Ridgeley that was really pushing to make Wham! happen and was, at least originally, a lot more motivated, so it wasn't entirely blind luck.

      He is, to a large extent, Hugh Grant's character in Music & Lyrics except I don't think Ridgeley had that same level of resentment toward George Michael and I never heard that George Michael resented having to share the embarrassingly large royalties with him.

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        #28
        I'm sure there are a shit-ton of non-lead-singers who, while competent or even a lot better than competent, could be replaced and the band would have been, or could continue to be, just as commercially successful. That doesn't speak well of those band's output, of course, but I'm sure there's some kind of Wins Above Replacement for music and especially for heavily-produced, image-driven acts, there are a lot of Kole Calhouns* out there, not to mention all the Chris Davises just getting by because they were childhood friends of the lead-singer.

        That reminds me of a joke/fact that there are likely lots of dudes out there trying to pull women in bars by saying they're the drummer for Maroon 5 or Train. Who would know the difference? Who would care?


        * Dude had 552 plate-appearances and a WAR of exactly 0.0

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          #29
          He is, to a large extent, Hugh Grant's character in Music & Lyrics except I don't think Ridgeley had that same level of resentment toward George Michael and I never heard that George Michael resented having to share the embarrassingly large royalties with him.

          heh I don't know if resentment ever came into it. From what I can remember from the coverage of his passing, George Michael always basically described Ridgeley as the kid who came up to him on his first day in a new primary school and said "Lets be friends", and then made his teenage years bearable by always having his back and always accepting who he was when that wasn't a given, and convincing him to become a singer because he thought that GM was the talented one. For his part Ridgeley asked people to stop referring to GM as "Wham singer" when he passed, because that didn't do justice to his talent, and Wham was only a small part of that.

          I would like to add Mikey Graham to this list. Mikey was the one in Boyzone who looked like a plumber.

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            #30
            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
            He is, to a large extent, Hugh Grant's character in Music & Lyrics except I don't think Ridgeley had that same level of resentment toward George Michael and I never heard that George Michael resented having to share the embarrassingly large royalties with him.

            heh I don't know if resentment ever came into it. From what I can remember from the coverage of his passing, George Michael always basically described Ridgeley as the kid who came up to him on his first day in a new primary school and said "Lets be friends", and then made his teenage years bearable by always having his back and always accepting who he was when that wasn't a given, and convincing him to become a singer because he thought that GM was the talented one. For his part Ridgeley asked people to stop referring to GM as "Wham singer" when he passed, because that didn't do justice to his talent, and Wham was only a small part of that.

            I would like to add Mikey Graham to this list. Mikey was the one in Boyzone who looked like a plumber.
            Yeah, that was my impression. He probably deserves as much credit for Wham!'s success as Brian Epstein does for The Beatles' or Rob Gretton does for Joy Division's.

            Most members of boy-bands fall into this category of dumb luck. Yeah, some of them can sing and dance pretty well, but with a few exceptions like Justin Timberlake, none of them are very, um, exceptional. Same with a lot of ephemeral female pop stars like Jessica Simpson. Every high school in America has at least one conventionally attractive girl who can kinda sing and dance just as well. The difference between all those kids and the ones on the cover of People Magazine are the luck of being "discovered" in a mall or whatever and/or having pushy stage-parents. Of course, especially in the latter case, the number of pop stars/child actors who end-up with serious drug problems and/or emancipating themselves from their parents raises doubts as to whether that can really be considered "luck."

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              #31
              Also it's worth considering what "Being discovered in a mall" entailed....

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                #32
                Correct.

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                  #33
                  Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                  That reminds me of a joke/fact that there are likely lots of dudes out there trying to pull women in bars by saying they're the drummer for Maroon 5 or Train. Who would know the difference? Who would care?
                  I'd just put on my best attempt at a French accent and claim to be one of Daft Punk.

                  And Berba, I see your Mikey and raise you Danny from New Kids On The Block - a man who looked like Lurch from The Addams Family and sang like Lurch if he'd just inhaled sulphur hexafluoride.

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                    #34
                    Daft Punk. That’s a good idea.

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                      #35
                      Daft Punk aren't immune from this discussion either. Not because of their heavy use of samples (who hasn't over the last 30 years), but because of how little they seemed to add or do with them at times.





                      The lazy bastards.

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                        #36
                        There were loadsa people in the 50s and early 60s that got lucky. Like Fabian Forte:

                        Bob Marcucci of Chancellor records was a friend of Fabian's next door neighbor. One day, Fabian's father had a heart attack, and, while he was being taken away in an ambulance, Marcucci spotted Fabian, then 16 years old. Fabian later recalled, "He kept staring at me and looking at me. I had a crew cut, but this was the day of Rick Nelson and Elvis. He comes up and says to me, 'So if you're ever interested in the rock and roll business...' and hands me his card. I looked at the guy like he was out of his mind. I told him, "leave me alone. I'm worried about my dad."

                        Marcucci persisted, Fabian and his family were eventually amenable — his Dad was now unable to work — and he agreed to record a single. "They gave me a pompadour and some clothes and those goddamned white bucks", recalled Fabian, "and out I went." "He was the right look and right for what we were going for", wrote Marcucci later. Fabian was given an allowance from the record company of $30 a week. He also kept working part-time at a pharmacy as well as studying at South Philadelphia High School, while practicing his singing. He later said "I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew my goal, to try to make extra money. That meant a lot to our family. I rehearsed and rehearsed, but I really felt like a fish out of water. Then we made a record. And it was horrible." But "the response – they told me – was overwhelming. I had no idea."

                        Right place, right time innit.

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                          #37
                          Flava Flav. Made a career out of wearing a clock round his neck and saying "yeah, boyyyeee" a lot. For some reason keeps suggesting Chuck tell everyone what time it is when he's the one with the kitchen wallclock for a medallion. He's your typical shortarse gang member who stands behind the gang leader stirring shit knowing that he's safe. The Denny Rees to Chuck D's Gripper Stebson.

                          Having said all that I still think Public Enemy are fucking monster.

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                            #38
                            See also Ol' Dirty Bastard.

                            *edit obviously not any more.

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                              #39
                              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                              On the Waylon Jennings theme, were there some musicians booked on the Lockerbie flight who switched? Or 9/11 flights?
                              John Lydon for the Lockerbie flight, and I've heard it said about others, though can't recall who, or even whether they musicians or other types of celebrity.

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                                #40
                                Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
                                Flava Flav. Made a career out of wearing a clock round his neck and saying "yeah, boyyyeee" a lot. For some reason keeps suggesting Chuck tell everyone what time it is when he's the one with the kitchen wallclock for a medallion. He's your typical shortarse gang member who stands behind the gang leader stirring shit knowing that he's safe. The Denny Rees to Chuck D's Gripper Stebson.

                                Having said all that I still think Public Enemy are fucking monster.
                                Flavor's role isn't completely random though; he is Chuck's hype man, in the way that Bobby Byrd was for James Brown. He warms up the crowd, provides a contrast to the main man's stentorian tones and generally lifts some of the weight of carrying the show from his shoulders. I'd also guess that doing stuff in a call and response style makes it easier to remember the sheer quantity of words used in each show, but that may be me projecting my own crap memory onto sturdier minds.

                                I quite fancy getting a round the neck clock even now. Not the full Habitat kitchen number, but maybe a more modest sports timer like the ones Chuck used to wear.

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                                  #41
                                  I'm going to nominate Tom Jones. Not because he isn't incredibly talented and a brilliant singer but because he grew up in Pontypridd and tbh anyone who escapes from Pontypridd is a fucking lucky bastard.

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                                    #42
                                    Gerry and the Pacemakers: three Number 1s with a Beatles reject, a Tin Pan Alley song by numbers and a show tune all polished up by George Martin and hyped by Brian Epstein.

                                    Alvin Stardust: drafted into the role because Peter Shelley didn't want to play the character he had written the song for.

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                                      #43
                                      'Lucky' for a few people at the Magnet stable, then. Shelley as 'Alvin Stardust' would likely have stiffed within weeks.

                                      As it was, Bernard Jewry looked far more the part, cleaned up with a fair few hits over a ten-year period and Shelley also bagged himself a couple of Top Five singles with gentler songs.

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                                        #44
                                        Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View Post
                                        John Lydon for the Lockerbie flight, and I've heard it said about others, though can't recall who, or even whether they musicians or other types of celebrity.
                                        Is that factual about Lydon, or just one of those "I was meant to be on that flight, you know" Lydonisms? Because that man likes to talk and wouldn't mind telling a yarn or two.

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                                          #45
                                          Linda McCartney.

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                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                            Is that factual about Lydon, or just one of those "I was meant to be on that flight, you know" Lydonisms? Because that man likes to talk and wouldn't mind telling a yarn or two.
                                            The Four Tops were supposed to be on the Lockerbie flight according to 'The Duke', but ended up skipping it to film a TV performance.

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                                              #47
                                              Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                              Is that factual about Lydon, or just one of those "I was meant to be on that flight, you know" Lydonisms? Because that man likes to talk and wouldn't mind telling a yarn or two.
                                              Well, the tale was that his other half (Ari's ma) took forever to pack and they missed the fated flight for that reason. There's nothing in the way he's recounted it that makes me doubtful, tbh.

                                              Edit: Former Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel bassist Paul Jeffreys wasn't so lucky. He and his bride were killed on that flight as they embarked upon their honeymoon.
                                              Last edited by Jah Womble; 20-10-2018, 19:02.

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                                                #48
                                                I met someone last week who was seven and living in Lockerbie when, well, when Lockerbie happened. As you can imagine, even though she didn't lose anyone she still deals with it

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                                                  #49
                                                  Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                                                  Edit: Former Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel bassist Paul Jeffreys wasn't so lucky. He and his bride were killed on that flight as they embarked upon their honeymoon.
                                                  Now where did you look that up, etc

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                                                    #50
                                                    Adam Clayton.

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