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    #26
    To encourage new posters maybe you could have free access for a few months or use is free if you only post occasionally?

    I'll help with the admin as well, despite being a software tester I know very little about computering! Will do any non-technical shitwork
    Last edited by Gert from the Well; 12-02-2021, 15:49.

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      #27
      I would prefer OTF to always be free at the point of use and donations to be entirely voluntary.

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        #28
        I'd have no problem with a monthly sub of a few quid. It has value to me.

        But, I don't know how it would be possible to have subs and open access. If there was a dispute between posters and one was paying and one wasn't then that would be problematic. Also if people pay subs there would have to be much clearer processes around bans for bad behaviour and stuff. We end up in contract territory. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

        I wonder if the football forum could be kept open access and the other areas restricted to paying members. That would mean people could have a taste of the action before deciding to pay for full access.

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          #29
          I wouldn't have joined the board if it had required a subscription then or later. But perhaps a Wikipedia style request for donations would work? I didn't donate last time mainly due to it being PayPal, but knowing the costs makes it more likely to donate in future. I'd be happy to sign up to a recurring donation scheme.

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            #30
            There's also some stuff on here that's valuable social history. We have a contemporary view of the 2020 pandemic that runs to 1000s of posts and captures the responses of real people in real time to a global catastrophe. I've thought before how it would make the good basis to a book. I'd hope we could find a way to archive that if it was going to be switched off.

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              #31
              Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
              I'm shocked how little we've raised in donations, a minimum monthly donation is 2 pounds which suggests under a dozen people are paying that.
              Anecdotally, when the donation options appeared on the current version of the board, it was impossible to set up a recurring donation in currencies other than GBP. Since I can be self-defeatingly neurotic sometimes, I did not want to put a monthly donation on my personal budget that would require me to monitor the GBP/EUR exchange rate, so I did nothing and promptly conveniently forgot about it ever since.

              At current rates, I will gladly throw in about 100 GBP per year. Is Patreon able to handle euros? Otherwise I'll just get over myself and dunk in a GBP amount.

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                #32
                That's a good point Wouter D as we've got many non UK based posters.

                Patreon advertised on the podcast was giving amounts in dollars iirc.

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                  #33
                  Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                  But, I don't know how it would be possible to have subs and open access. If there was a dispute between posters and one was paying and one wasn't then that would be problematic. Also if people pay subs there would have to be much clearer processes around bans for bad behaviour and stuff. We end up in contract territory. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
                  This is a good point. We need separate branches of government: the judicial committee should be disjoint from the budget committee. If people can assume roles on multiple branches within separate parts of their brain, I'm fine with that too.

                  I wonder if the football forum could be kept open access and the other areas restricted to paying members. That would mean people could have a taste of the action before deciding to pay for full access.
                  If we go for restricted access, something like this sounds like a good idea to me.

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                    #34
                    I said I'd donate last time and ended up doing the patron thing for the mag instead. I'm happy to chip in a few bob towards keeping OTF going too, though. Definitely agree that mandatory subs would be a bad idea though.

                    While completely understanding that WSC no longer want to fund or manage OTF, I think it would be very sad if the link was broken altogether and we became 'just another messageboard'. But would WSC want to have their name and branding on something independent that they had no control over? It might be ok now, but over time the user base, admins and culture could change and become something they wanted nothing to do with.

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                      #35
                      I'm doing okay at the mo, but others aren't. I'd be happy to pay a voluntary amount and keep the board free for those that can't afford to subscribe for whatever reason.

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                        #36
                        If we raise more money than we need, who is going to be in charge of investing it?

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                          #37
                          Originally posted by caja-dglh View Post
                          If we raise more money than we need, who is going to be in charge of investing it?
                          I say ad hoc

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                            #38
                            He'd stick it all under his mattress.

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                              #39
                              I say if we have more than we need we pay Snake

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                                #40
                                If we have more than we need, we should invest it all in Dogecoin.

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                                  #41
                                  I'd be happy to set up a regular payment too, but agree that it shouldn't be mandatory, nor connected to any kind of board privileges. We shouldn't be in a position that someone comes in as a subscriber that can't be banned even if they are an aggressive racist.

                                  I have some specific technical knowledge, but not sure whether it'd be useful as I don't know what language(s) the board uses. If the database is SQL based, definitely. I also have some rusty HTML and Java skills that could be brushed off if required (and others aren't able to help with that).

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                                    #42
                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    I say if we have more than we need we pay Snake
                                    Not a chance. Stick it in the bank account. (Which I'm having a think about - are there still completely free bank accounts out there for this sort of thing? Very low volume of transactions per month.)

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                                      #43
                                      https://www.onetouchfootball.com/donate/

                                      The donation page link in case anyone is interested.

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                                        #44
                                        for reasons which defy logic, I'd held off donating because I'd got it into my head it was taking money in USD rather than GBP

                                        ('Happy to chip in the suggested 30 a year)


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                                          #45
                                          My initial reaction to the OP was that it would have to be subs or ads in some way. I know a lot of people have argued against this but WSC (who sound as if they have kept OTF going for far longer than they could have done given all the circumstances) have shown that the donation model doesn't work in terms of current funding. What happens if we go down the donations route and there's a shortfall, are we going to have some people having to go round constantly reminding for donations? "we need another fifty quid this month or the board disappears", that sort of thing. I quite liked the idea up thread of having football as a free forum and everything else paywalled.

                                          My sense is that WSC do a lot of heavy lifting that would switch to the collective when their involvement ends - things such as spam removal, hosting, knowledge of libel (although this place is nowhere near as wild as it used to be), technicals, visits from our Indonesian friends etc. There'd be no WSC safety net to deal with any of these and we'd need good quality admins to deal with these things.

                                          I know WSC have said that there's "no timeframe" but presumably they already have an idea of when they intend to pull up the drawbridge. What sort of window are we broadly looking at? Easter? The Euros assuming they happen? Christmas?

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                                            #46
                                            What about ad free for paying subscribers and ads for those that don't pay?

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                                              #47
                                              Do ads make much money? We've got a dedicated group of users who spend hours of time here every day (or a good number of minutes anyway) and who click through link after link. But we don't have that many unique users as a whole.

                                              That doesn't strike me as an especially good proposition for advertisers.

                                              Mind you perhaps we could ask fjallraven to sponsor us

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                                                #48
                                                Count me in as someone who would happily pay ?30 a month, or whatever.

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                                                  #49
                                                  I will vote for free at point of use for all forums. First off, I think there is the risk that new or dormant posters would be put off by any subscription model (I avoid websites where it's not easy to opt out of cookies, let alone paying). A shrinking pool of posters is the end of the board anyway. Secondly, while I have no idea of others' financial circumstances, I have an idea that some of my favourite posters might be put off if they were having to subscribe. It would be good if the mechanism for donations was a flexible as possible, bearing in mind the international spread of members.

                                                  I'd prefer no ads but would tolerate some if that's the only way to keep the board running and free.
                                                  Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                                  What about ad free for paying subscribers and ads for those that don't pay?
                                                  This is a good idea to investigate, but I thing Ad Hoc may have it right about the low traffic here.


                                                  Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                                  But, I don't know how it would be possible to have subs and open access. If there was a dispute between posters and one was paying and one wasn't then that would be problematic. Also if people pay subs there would have to be much clearer processes around bans for bad behaviour and stuff. We end up in contract territory. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
                                                  I'm sure something could be written somewhere clarifying that while the board welcomes donations, it doesn't bestow privileges or immunity. If people are so difficult or unpleasant that they have have to be banned and their subs lost, so be it. IIRC, the Say Something in Welsh forum, which is part of people's actual livelihood, deleted racist posts by a member who threatened to withdraw his subs. They responded by cancelling his membership, returning his money and suggesting that anyone else who didn't like a racism-free board was welcome to leave as well. (I think I have that story right. PT will prob know.) Anyway, I'd like to feel OTF would be as comfortable in putting principle ahead of expediency.

                                                  I can't offer to help with admin or modding, sorry, I would be bad at it and find it incredibly stressful, but I will set up a small monthly payment to wherever gets decided. I'm a sporadic poster, but OTF is a great source of information, ideas and support and I would hate to lose it.

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                                                    #50
                                                    Blimey, I think the Wing Commander's just offered to cover the whole lot there. Steady on chief.

                                                    Anyway, I'm not rich (or sporting, or wom, etc.) but I'd happily chip in either a small amount per month or a larger lump sum per year – if possible I'd prefer either thing to be an option as it would be nice to know people have alternative ways of doing it.

                                                    I know the donation model can be very hit or miss in general, but I think there's plenty enough goodwill around here to let us raise sufficient funds per month. Oddly I think it might actually help if we (WSC/Snake) are able to nail down an actual figure, so that the annual/monthly upkeep cost could be published – I get the feeling that if the regular users are able to see just how much (or, perhaps counterintuitively) how little is needed then it'll spur people to donate, as they can actually see how much of an effect they'd be able to have, just like that.

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